[tjbras64]

If you live with someone, can they just decide that they are throwing you out and want you out the next day? My daughter initially rented their apartment and he moved in with her. When the lease got renewed, the people in the office only put it in his name. All the utilities are in her name. She doesn't want to be with him anymore, but they have 2 children together so they were staying in the same apartment, but different rooms and splitting all the bills. Now he told her today that he wants her out tomorrow. Can he do this to her?

[LisaB4657]

No, he can't do this. If he tries to throw her out tell her to call the police. He has to give her 30 days written notice. If she hasn't left after the 30 days is up then he has to file a lawsuit for eviction.

[barbazhp]

It depends on the state you are in.
If she is not on the lease she is legally a guest and is not subject to evection.
It is very difficult to remove a guest.
Worse case is the 30 day notice which because the lease was in her name first and if he can prove she paid 1/2 the rent when he was on the lease is his only hope of eviction.
Best case the laws protect women and children he can not force them out he is responsible for their well being and can only get her to move voluntarily. I think he is in no position to remove her. The only legal way to remove a guest is to turn off the utilities and hope they move, but they are in her name! She can get free legal advise at a pro bono legal hotline to be sure of the specific state laws. He may end up paying for her move, deposits,first months rent, as part of a deal to get her to agree move and then go after child support till the kids are 18 or graduate college which ever is longer. The jerk better watch it he has been very stupid!

[LisaB4657]

It depends on the state you are in.
If she is not on the lease she is legally a guest and is not subject to evection.

Not true. It it not necessary to be on the lease to be considered a tenant. She has established residency and is therefore not a guest. He has to give her the required notice and then file a lawsuit for eviction.

It is very difficult to remove a guest.
Worse case is the 30 day notice which because the lease was in her name first and if he can prove she paid 1/2 the rent when he was on the lease is his only hope of eviction.
Best case the laws protect women and children he can not force them out he is responsible for their well being and can only get her to move voluntarily.

Wrong. He can give her a 30 day notice and then file to have her evicted.

I think he is in no position to remove her.

Wrong.

The only legal way to remove a guest is to turn off the utilities and hope they move, but they are in her name! She can get free legal advise at a pro bono legal hotline to be sure of the specific state laws. He may end up paying for her move, deposits,first months rent, as part of a deal to get her to agree move and then go after child support till the kids are 18 or graduate college which ever is longer. The jerk better watch it he has been very stupid!

Please don't count on this happening.

[barbazhp]

Lisa/Expert??

I have 25 years in this business and as I prefaced Real Estate Laws vary from state to state.
A tenant is not some one who resides in a property but one who pays rent and occupies the property. As I said if she has paid 1/2 the rent and the lease was in her name prior then the father of her children may be able to claim she is a tenant.

More likely being the father of the children, showing his intent to care for the family unit/mother and off spring, with his actions of so doing, he has set a precedent that courts have upheld over and over even when the man isn't the biological father of the children they are made to be the responsible party. If one is showing legal action by taking the responsibility to care for the family unit, then family law will supersede the real estate laws. The well being of people is more important to protect than who pays the rent.

You can not throw out a cohabitator. Even a tenant gets 30 days notice. This man is, as are you Lisa, going to be in for a big surprise when you find out how biased the laws are for a mother and her children. A guest has virtually no laws ruling on them, you have invited the guest to stay voluntarily and therefore there is no wrong doing or damage by them choosing to stay. If the man calls the police they will tell him there is nothing they can do.

If you have ever listened to Tom Leykis a talk show host who hates women and teaches men about such things he has reiterated that when a guy and gal live together the law does not allow the man to throw them out. He suggests the man move in with a friend and make his apartment as uncomfortable as possible. Turn off the cable, water, electricity and then the guest will choose to move out. Other than that; wait till the lease is up, and move themselves else where.

Of course this is based upon the small amount of information given and there isn't a state named so it is all speculation at this point.

[JudyKayTee]

I have no idea where your attitude (and, for that matter, your spelling and grammar) comes from. You may have 25 years in the business (as an Attorney?) but you are dead wrong.

This is a legal thread - quoting Tom Leykis is the same as quoting Judge Judy. Meaningless and good radio/TV.

I have no problem if you disagree. A good legal argument always gets the blood going. It's your disrespect that concerns me. That and the fact that you are wrong.

What does you "prefaced" real estate laws mean?

[ScottGem]

Now he told her today that he wants her out tomorrow. Can he do this to her?

No he cannot do this for several reasons. One does not have to be a tenant to establish residency. A resident cannot be arbitrarily kicked out. If he tries to remove her, changes the locks whatever, all she needs to do is call the police show them her ID with the address as her legal address and they will force him to let her back in. As a resident she has to be formally evicted. Which generally means a 30 day notice to vacate.

But there are other factors here. If she has a copy of the original lease showing her as the leaseholder and he does try to evict her, she MAY be able to prove that since she was the original leaseholder, that she has, at least, equal rights to the apartment.

However, if she really doesn't want to be with him, then she should be looking for new digs anyway.

It depends on the state you are in.
If she is not on the lease she is legally a guest and is not subject to evection.
It is very difficult to remove a guest.
... The only legal way to remove a guest is to turn off the utilities and hope they move

This is very incorrect advice. First, A person can not be on the lease and be considered a resident. Residents have much the same rights as tenants when it comes to getting them out. A guest is somewhat below a resident and its not as difficult to remove them.

And turning off utilities whle someone is occupting the premises, is highly ILLEGAL.

I don't know what experience you have had, but several of the things you have said here are not legally accurate. And some of the things you said in your second post actually contradicted what you said in first post.

Finally, you need to drop the 'tude. Lisa responsed to your incorrexct advice by pointing out how incorrect it was. She did not attack you personally as you did her in violation of the rules of this site.

[LisaB4657]

Lisa/Expert??

Yes. Expert. I have a bit of experience in this area.

I have 25 years in this business and as I prefaced Real Estate Laws vary from state to state.
A tenant is not some one who resides in a property but one who pays rent and occupies the property. As I said if she has paid 1/2 the rent and the lease was in her name prior then the father of her children may be able to claim she is a tenant.

"Tenant. In the broadest sense, one who holds or possesses lands or tenements by any kind of right or title, whether in fee, for life, for years, at will, or otherwise. In a more restricted sense, one who holds lands of another; one who has the temporary use and occupation of real property owned by another person (called the "landlord"), the duration and terms of his tenancy being usually fixed by an instrument called a "lease". One who occupies another's land or premises in subordination to such other's title and with his assent, express or implied." Black's Law Dictionary.

A person's name does not need to be listed on a lease for them to be considered a tenant. Even if she didn't pay a penny of the rent she would be considered a tenant under the law because she resides in premises owned by another, with their permission.

More likely being the father of the children, showing his intent to care for the family unit/mother and off spring, with his actions of so doing, he has set a precedent that courts have upheld over and over even when the man isn't the biological father of the children they are made to be the responsible party. If one is showing legal action by taking the responsibility to care for the family unit, then family law will supersede the real estate laws. The well being of people is more important to protect than who pays the rent.

The Family Court may very well take that attitude with regard to this situation. But if he files a lawsuit for eviction a tenancy judge will grant him a judgment unless she walks into court with a signed Order from the Family Court judge. If she hasn't already obtained such an Order by the time of the eviction hearing then she will be evicted.

You can not throw out a cohabitator. Even a tenant gets 30 days notice.

Yes. I said that in my first response. He has to give her 30 days written notice before he can file for eviction.

This man is, as are you Lisa, going to be in for a big surprise when you find out how biased the laws are for a mother and her children. A guest has virtually no laws ruling on them, you have invited the guest to stay voluntarily and therefore there is no wrong doing or damage by them choosing to stay. If the man calls the police they will tell him there is nothing they can do.

She's not a guest.

If you have ever listened to Tom Leykis a talk show host who hates women and teaches men about such things he has reiterated that when a guy and gal live together the law does not allow the man to throw them out. He suggests the man move in with a friend and make his apartment as uncomfortable as possible. Turn off the cable, water, electricity and then the guest will choose to move out. Other than that; wait till the lease is up, and move themselves else where.

Having the utilities turned off is illegal. And how is this relevant to this case? The utilities are in the OP's name. He can't have them shut off.

Of course this is based upon the small amount of information given and there isn't a state named so it is all speculation at this point.

True. In some states he would only have to give her 15 days written notice before filing for eviction. Other than that the rules are fairly uniform.

[tracyhilton1201]

I do know that in Texas if she has anything as small as a toothbrush then he can't make her leave... he'd have to send her a certified letter saying he's evcting her and then give her 30 days to go or take her to small claims court

[barbazhp]

It is basic law; one who lives in another’s home and is not on the lease must have been invited to stay. How else could she be there? What damage, or wrong doing, has she done to the person who invited her to live there by her simply staying?

Laws protect from damage. When there is no damage, one has just changed their mind; the law can not help you. What legal document can instruct the law as to your agreement to enforce? We have all agreed worse case is a 30 day notice. But in this case there are no laws to restrict what one legally does with their property. If there are laws to force your invited guest to leave then there could be laws limiting your right to lawfully use the property you own or have temporary ownership in by leasing it. This there is not because we have freedom in America. In any state I have practiced in there has never been a resident status in Real Estate law. Resident usually applies to citizenship OR to have become a state resident by having a driver’s license, car tags, registered to vote.

As far as attacking Lisa I was responding to her I didn't call her names or make it personal.

Since the father of the children wants her to leave, she can negotiate with him to assist her in moving with money etc... Then because he is the father of the children he is in all states responsible for the children and she can with the backing of the state force him to pay monthly child support until the children are of legal adult age. He needs to change his attitude because if she wises up he'll find himself not being able to afford the apartment he is fighting to live alone in.

[JudyKayTee]

It is basic law; one who lives in another's home and is not on the lease must have been invited to stay. How else could she be there? What damage, or wrong doing, has she done to the person who invited her to live there by her simply staying?

Laws protect from damage. Private vs rights of the public
What legal document can instruct the law as to your agreement to enforce? We have all agreed worse case is a 30 day notice. But in this case there are no laws to restrict what one legally does with their property. If there are laws to force your invited guest to leave then there could be laws limiting your right to lawfully use the property you own or have temporary ownership in by leasing it. This there is not because we have freedom in America. In any state I have practiced in there has never been a resident status in Real Estate law. Resident usually applies to citizenship OR to have become a state resident by having a driver's license, car tags, registered to vote.

As far as attacking Lisa I was responding to her I didn't call her names or make it personal.

Since the father of the children wants her to leave, she can negotiate with him to assist her in moving with money etc... Then because he is the father of the children he is in all states responsible for the children and she can with the backing of the state force him to pay monthly child support until the children are of legal adult age. He needs to change his attitude because if she wises up he'll find himself not being able to afford the apartment he is fighting to live alone in.

There is no such thing as "basic" law - constitutional law, yes. Landlord/tenant law, yes. Negligence and so forth, yes. "Basic" law? Sounds like a high school term.

Please answer my earlier questions - what actually is included in your 25 years of experience and what does you "prefaced" the law mean?

You reasoning that if there is no damage the law cannot help you is absolutely incorrect. Aside from the faulty reasoning if someone wants someone else OUT of a residence, it is their legal right to attempt to remove that person.

This makes no sense whatsoever, I have absolutely no idea why you think it does and I am (for that reason) not addressing it: "If there are laws to force your invited guest to leave then there could be laws limiting your right to lawfully use the property you own or have temporary ownership in by leasing it. This there is not because we have freedom in America. In any state I have practiced in there has never been a resident status in Real Estate law. Resident usually applies to citizenship OR to have become a state resident by having a driver's license, car tags, registered to vote."

You are mixing apples and oranges here - and not even well.

As far as your post in response to Lisa - read it again. I find "Lisa/expert ????" to be unfair and, yes, disrespectful. You are aware Lisa is an Attorney, right?

Please post the State where it is legal to shut off the utilities or otherwise cause a constructive eviction.

[ScottGem]

It is basic law; one who lives in another’s home and is not on the lease must have been invited to stay. How else could she be there? What damage, or wrong doing, has she done to the person who invited her to live there by her simply staying?

A person can become a resident of a home by forging an agreement (doesn't have to be written) with the legal resident to stat there. This would not be a case of an invitation. And, even in the case that a person did move in as the result of an invitation, they can still establish residency and once they do, they have to be evicted.

Not sure how the damage issue pertains.

Laws protect from damage. When there is no damage, one has just changed their mind; the law can not help you. What legal document can instruct the law as to your agreement to enforce? We have all agreed worse case is a 30 day notice. But in this case there are no laws to restrict what one legally does with their property. If there are laws to force your invited guest to leave then there could be laws limiting your right to lawfully use the property you own or have temporary ownership in by leasing it. This there is not because we have freedom in America. In any state I have practiced in there has never been a resident status in Real Estate law. Resident usually applies to citizenship OR to have become a state resident by having a driver’s license, car tags, registered to vote.

Your residence is where you live. Most state laws recognize one's legal address, where there ID says they live, where they get mail, etc as their legal residence. Once a person establish such a legal residence, they cannot be arbitrairily removed from it.

I don't know what having "freedom in America" has to do with things. Yes a homeowner or leaseholder has the right to control who resides in their property. But that control is limited by the rights of the occupant. Yes, the homeowner or leaseholder can get the occupant removed, but they have to do it using legal means. In that way, the rights and freedoms of BOTH parties are protected.

As far as attacking Lisa I was responding to her I didn't call her names or make it personal.

Yes you did!

Since the father of the children wants her to leave, she can negotiate with him to assist her in moving with money etc... Then because he is the father of the children he is in all states responsible for the children and she can with the backing of the state force him to pay monthly child support until the children are of legal adult age. He needs to change his attitude because if she wises up he'll find himself not being able to afford the apartment he is fighting to live alone in.

Anyone can negotiate for anything. But this is the only part of your advice that has merit or legal backing. The problem here is that the two issues are dealt with separately as a matter of law. The fact is that she is a resident of the apartment and therefore has to be formally evicted. She should be using the time she has to find new accommodations AND to file for custody and support from the father.

[LisaB4657]

One more time:

"Tenant. In the broadest sense, one who holds or possesses lands or tenements by any kind of right or title, whether in fee, for life, for years, at will, or otherwise. In a more restricted sense, one who holds lands of another; one who has the temporary use and occupation of real property owned by another person (called the "landlord"), the duration and terms of his tenancy being usually fixed by an instrument called a "lease". One who occupies another's land or premises in subordination to such other's title and with his assent, express or implied." Black's Law Dictionary.

A person who establishes residency is legally considered a tenant. If the owner of the property (or the person who has given them permission to live there) wants them to leave then they must follow the legal requirements for evicting a tenant.

It is basic law; one who lives in another’s home and is not on the lease must have been invited to stay.

Yes. They are living there in subordination to another person, with their assent. And it's called "common law", not "basic law".

In any state I have practiced in

You practice real estate law? In which state are you licensed?

there has never been a resident status in Real Estate law.

Correct. A person who is a resident is a tenant for all legal purposes.

[ScottGem]

A person who establishes residency is legally considered a tenant. If the owner of the property (or the person who has given them permission to live there) wants them to leave then they must follow the legal requirements for evicting a tenant.

Most laymen consider a tenant as someone who has entered an agreement to occupy the premises in return for some consideration. That consideration could be a rent payment, but it could also be other considerations like paying utilities, sharing other expenses, doing work on the premises, etc.

For that reason, I have used the term resident for someone who occupies the premises without any agreement to contribute to the household. But legally, as Lisa correctly points out, anyone who has established residency under any of a number of criteria (as one person stated, just having your toothbrush there) is legally a tenant and subject to the rights and responsibilities of a tenant.