[ScottGem]

Shah,
You seem to have a very narrow, egocentric viewpoint here. You need to look at the larger picture and maybe you will have some understanding.

I'll point out my very specific example. The tsunami of last year. Americans supplied aid to the victims of that disaster. Many countries that do not supply us with oil or anything else. No return was asked or expected. I'l also note that when we suffered through similar devastation as a result of Katrina, there was very little support provided by other countries.

You seem to think we are the only ones in the wrong here ("if u just admit the problem and accept why is happening"). I have already said, that I am aware of and understand some of the problems we cause. However, you make no attempt to see things from our side ("cause u pain by the premise they want to help u"). Did it ever occur to you that all we want to do is help? That we recognize the riches our country has been blessed with and want to help others achieve that? Maybe its not a "premise", but a sincere desire to help. Granted we often do it badly, but maybe if the people we are trying to help look past the mistakes and realize that's we are just trying to help, then maybe they might not resent the mistakes as much.

But yes I DO deny that America is the biggest terrorist and bully. That is just propaganda, that you seem to have been fed. We did not start terror anyplace.

If you want to look at root causes, try jealousy. A large part of the reason for the antagonism towards us is jealousy over what we have. Most countries have no problem in asking us for help when they need it, while at the same time biting the hand that feeds them.

You need to open your mind and try looking at facts. The facts are that the American people value peace and are generous and helping for the most part. But we also have backbone and will retaliate when we are attacked. The two largest cowardly attacks in human history were perpetrated against us (Pearl Harbor and 9/11). When attacked we WILL defend ourselves. An sometimes, the best defense is a good offense.

[talaniman]

I realize in other countries that thoughts and ideas are not so freely expressed but, to just repeat the party line without really knowing what goes on in the world is so sad.

[SHAHRAZAD]

Oh my god that is the simplton would say that, I know you are not a politician you like to believe the good intention of america, any thing you said about why people come if america is so bad and people are jealous , is this the mind of an american( simplton) it is not what you want to believe it is pure politics of course you are an american you only hear the good things america does but you have to hear it from different prospective, it is not personal and I do not think people should kill americans it does not solve the problem but you should wake up and know that you do not live in this earth alone and protest your government your government does not care about you they send your kids to be killes. Like I said you want to believe the good things it is like your parents you do not want to believe they are bad (this is just an example, I am sure they are wonderful people) unless you go out side not being in an emotional state, I know there is war before america, I am against those extremist muslims I think they are very severe in their own religion I do not agree with the religion it self but this is not the point the point is you can not use every coountry to your advantage, so you know little bit about the soviet union and how they collapsed and please do not come back and have an attack on me and just act as a simplton american go and get more document and read a lot of history , I repeat it is not personal I just wish america become more educated about the world and stop being arrogant about it, my boyfriend is an american I just want to say that to let you know it is not personal

[ScottGem]

Ok, I see there is no point in discussing anything with you. You have a closed mind. You see only what you want to see or what the propagandists tell you.

Whether you believe it or not, I do see the warts. But I also see the good things. I survived 9/11 (I was in one of the towers that morning). I've seen the generosity and good heartedness of Americans. I am not blind to the excesses and abuses that we are also guilty of. You only see the bad and want to paint all Americans with the same brush. But you refuse to open your eyes to the facts. You accuse me of attacking you, when I have not come close to it. And then you make matters worse by attempting to insult me.

I was a political science major and am a history buff so I feel I know more than a bit about world history. If anyone needs to be educated, its you, I think you know very little about americans.

[SHAHRAZAD]

You are talking about the american individuals who like to believe that their conuntry is the best country and their policy as generous as they are inside and as the movies depicted it to others, I guess I was clear to say that americans should know what is going on from there country and to participate and to know every thing their government does, it is going to affect them sooner or later, and education has nothing to do with politics I know you are an educated man but do you really know any thing about why americans governmet is hated and please do not tell me it is jealousy I think we are not kids here we can have logical conversation , I repeat americans as individual are motivated by heroes from movies which is very good because as individuals they want to be good but do they know what they government is doing outside, that is was my only reason to write because I thought all americans live in this movies world and movies tell them their govrnment is so good to other nations and that is a shame you can not get your info from movies if you are scientist or a homeless you have to see different prospective, this is not attack on individuals american it is attack on their naivety because they are too victims of their government, do you know how many kids soldier died in the war? And please do not say they are defending their country americans and iraqees died in vain and who is to blame? The government, america is the most powrful country in the world and americans should have a say in what there government does like I said it is going to affect them and they should not clog their ears and just believe the good things. Do they stop and really think what our government did to be hated like that and for those people to come to our country and kill us? Think about it. I am not arguing for the sake of arguing I really believe that knowing the fact people in the most powerful country are powerful and can make change but by being believing one thing we are not going to have peace. Peace

[ScottGem]

You keep talking about me seeing things from a different perspective, yet you refuse to. And then you don't see how biased, closed minded and obtuse you are being. How many times do I have to say that I DO understand how Americans are perceived in other countries? How many times do I have to say that I know we have done things to deserve some of the antagonism you talk about?

But when are you going to get off your high horse and try looking at the facts for a change? Your perspective is just as, if not more skewed then you claim Americans are. Things are just not as black and white as you would like to believe. Until you try to view both sides as objectively as I try to, you are going to be off base.

[talaniman]

Could you be more specific so I can understand your point,you do have a point or are you working for a terrorist cell, where everyone quotes the same line?

[SHAHRAZAD]

U do not get it do u? So what you think should happen to stop this chaos, I would love to hear what you think should happen or be done, kill every one threaten united states instead of go to the bottom of the matter? I really am eager to hear your answer

[ScottGem]

No you are the one who doesn't get it. You prove, each time you post, that you are close minded. I noticed you never responded to the point I raised about the tsunami. You can't since that doesn't fit into your narrow view of things.

I don't pretend to have a magic solution. I do know that the killing needs to stop on ALL sides. I do know that the terrorists and extremeists need to disavow their hate mongering and destructive agenda before any meaningful peace can be achieved. I do believe that people need to look for the good in others, not just see the bad (as you seem to do). And then try to work from positives instead of negatives.

I just have no clue how to make that happen.

[talaniman]

Had to spread it around Scott but I agree. We know the right thing to do but how to do it is another matter. I think and hope the nut jobs who kill innocent people and themselves should be stopped and so far as hating the U S? That sounds like a lot of bitter feelings that have been ground into MUSH! I don't care at all how they feel and if Iran for example hates us so much they don't hesitate to take the aid we send after an earthquake. The middle east has never had peace so who's fault is that?

[ScottGem]

I don't care at all how they feel and if Iran for example hates us so much they don't hesitate to take the aid we send after an earthquake. The middle east has never had peace so who's fault is that?

This is one of the paradoxes of foreign policy that SHAHRAZAD refuses to open his (her?) eyes to. A lot of these countries have their right hands out asking for our help, while holding a hate placard in the left. If they hate us now, imagine the hue and cry were we to cut off aid and support.

[SHAHRAZAD]

If you do something good and turn to other side and do something horrible would that cancel the bad is that what you are saying? yeah united stated did somegood but can't u see the bad? vietnam, hiroshima, panama, chili, and so on doing something good does not erase the fact that you have a free pass to do damage somewhere else, I do not know what you all mean and argue about and refusing my point that americans have to be involved in any aspect in their government and the policy because policy is affecting any one when the government did some damage to other countries the pay back could be very harsh (september11) please watch ( the marshal law of the states), I am not close minded I happen to know facts

[talaniman]

I will admit I'm having a hard time following your logic,but if your saying there are those that would try to kill americans that's not exactly a secret,but I doubt we will stick our heads in the sand especially since whatever they do to us payback WILL be harsh. The dates don't matter much. If you have any suggestions what we SHOULD be doing... I'm all ears and please go slow so my simpleton brain can follow.

[SHAHRAZAD]

I am sorry I do not mean to offend here but americans live in their world (and they have a right to be into themselves it a big big country and they did not feel the need to understand what is going on around the world actually most of them do not even know their government, I understand it a big country and the obsession is movie stars and show business and I think this is the time to know and defend themselves by going back to their government history and not to try to defend something they do not know about because the government does not want to show the bad pics to their people , like I said americans are not bad people I just hate the idea of defending something you have no idea what you talking about , think about it, if the government has bad policy around the world you do not say it does not concern u, I live in a peace country we all know from 9/11 we all vulnerable to any thing , and this thread started with a man is so upsetabout the treatment he got while he was serving them, and when every body went off on him it just hit me that you do not feel others pain you just want to defend and all americans like to be sympathetic why not here, I feel sympathy for every family lost a loved one due to politics and the people have the power to change that, so instead of defending try to know exactly what is going on then when you defend you are going to have solid argument, and I want to say about islamic fantic I think they are with out their hate to american they are nutcases due to being sooooo religious but they got a point though but actually this a defferent topic

[ScottGem]

You just don't get it do you. Vietnam? We were invited there by the South Vietnamese government. Hiroshima? What about Pearl Harbor? We were at war with Japan, a war of their own making. Were we supposed to let more Americans die in a drawn out war? Sorry, doesn't work that way. Panama? What about it? Are you referring to capturing Norieaga who was funneling drugs into our country? Chili? Americans love chili, especially in the Southwest.

Your betray a distinct lack of knowledge of American History and show an extremely biased and propagandized view of it. Are you actually justifying 9/11? Do you think a sneak attack that killed thousands of ordinary citizens was justified? I think you are referring to the Marshall Plan. This was a plan for the rebuilding of Europe after WWII. What about it. Have you ever read the Mouse That Roared? The premise of that was to attack and LOSE an war against the US so they would help rebuild the attacker. It was a satire, by the way.

You have NO idea what things are really like in the US, this is clear by your biased, misleading statements. You continue to ignore facts. Like why do so many people try to emulate western culture? Do we force blue jeans and rock and roll on other countries? No, they want it themselves.

When you learn what lifew is really like in the US, what the American people are really like, then maybe you can try discussing things with us. Right now you just don't have a clue.

[talaniman]

I don't get it either. What do movie stars have to do with this? I don't know any and sure can't live by them.

[SHAHRAZAD]

I guess you donot have a clue and I think you are right wing because you refuse to know the negative and just believe what you know which is justified right by you and you will not listen to any one suffered from united states policy and by the same token if you are mad that united stated suffered from terrorist would you even admit that united states policy caused suffer elswhere, and for movies I mentioned I meant the culture here and the whole obssessin with movies would not allow people to look and be educated about other countries, and you say facts these are your facts, you live in the states you have not talked to people or know countries are suffered I mean you did not hear first hand that is why I suggested to hear other voices, you are the one who is very very close minded and your kind would not negotiate to have a solution you just want to be right and live by your right facts, and for 9/11 I do not justify any killing no matter what but all I was saying look at the root of the problem. With your kind we are not going to have peace in the world you just want to be right and would ignore others justified pain caused by specific policy.

The documentaries r, (martial law of the states, the control room, the illuminati, why we fight) and so many but with your attitude the war is not going to stop and [u have to have an opinion on every thing especially peace, do not say I do not know, and this exactlly how americans felt toward politics till they got 9/11, u should think of peace not just arguing and want to be right, I got nothing more to say here because having a discussion with a right wing person is so difficult to me, their mind is closed and you can not even see that what I am trying here is peace and you just want to be right does not matter what happened we can not change that but we can change the future

[talaniman]

I got to tell you!! You have had every opportunity to make a point but all you have presented is generalities and inuendos. If you can bring specific facts to bear, we can have a dialog. Not a diatribe that you seem to prefer. So the ball is in your court, give us facts to back up your rhetoric or.. And who are you calling right wing? Do you even understand what that is? Or are you just repeating something you heard in terrorist school? Again what policies have caused harm to you or others that justify whatever it is your ranting about. Where do you live anyway? I am trying to understand but you aren't helping at all.

[SHAHRAZAD]

Believe me know what right wing is and I do no think( from what you insiunate) it is not about words or about appearing(know it all) I am not mad but your posts are missing the point getting in any details here there is no space and you would argue the facts from your comfortable place but this is not the point the point is , do you want peace then you have to listen to other nations and see things from different angles I know you want to be patriatic and emotional about your country by just defending but would that solve any things , and for you to say I am in terrorist school it kind of funny it is the easiest and the closest thing to say if someone just try to have you watch and listen to different documentaries. I know the drive here is patriotism and emotions but I think the real patriodic is the one is going to be objecteve and try to have solutions instead of blind patriotism, and it is not personal with me do not make that way, by arguing with me would not change what is going on it does not matter who is right here in this forum what matter is from this forum would people want really to have peace, I am not attacking any one but I feel you just want to argue and be right and you are going to justify any thing to your so called patriotism but would that help? Who is the real patriodic the one who is driven by emotions and just add more fuel to the problem or the one who is trying to be objective and see things for different angle believe me if you think that way that would not make you a treason but I think the opposite (do not be scared, I know what happened to dixie chics for what they said and how it is taken you think that was right to attack them which natalie said was right)insead of just hating and wanting to be right try to see and hear from different nations, I know they are fanatic but through that you have to find what the problem why these fanatic religious do what they do, and for the hating it goes both ways I think hate is blind and would only fuel the chaos

[Curlyben]

Whhhhhhhooooooooo Shahrazad I do believe that it is now time to calm down.
Your sentence structure, or lack of it, shows a very angry person.
Also at the bottom of the posting box are three buttons, one is a spell checker, please, for the sake of our sanity, use it.
That is all.