[Seven0h7]

My husband and I have been together for 5 years, each of us coming into the relationship with 2 children. At this point my kids are 15 & 12, and his are 7 & 9. My step daughters live with us and see their mom every weekend. Things can be rough for 2 families to come together like this, but my hubby and I have worked very hard to pull us all together as a family.
My problem is my 9 y/o. She lies about everything, even the stuipd stuff. He favorite thing to tell me is... "Well dad said.." When dad didn't say. She lies to us, her mom, her friends, our friends, her teachers, everyone. She tries to lie to get out of trouble, you can catch her doing something, I mean catch her, and she will say everything she can think of to tell you she wasn't doing it.
This has been going on for nearly 3 years now, slowly getting worse and worse until you can't believe anything that this child says. We have tried several different types of disapline to no avail. From keeping a "Truth chart"(where she marks down each time she could lie but tells the truth and gets rewarded at the end of each week if she doesn't tell any lies) to grounding her for a week with no TV friends phone xbox or music. We have told her the story of the boy who cried wolf and still nothing is working. We even put a dab of tobasco on her tongue, but after a few tries she had acquired a taste for it and now eats it a lot.
When we ask her why she lies she says it too hard to quit. Its like she addicted to lying?? We have explained to her that she needs to just make the decision in her head that she won't lie.
She is a very good girl aside from the lying problem, we are at a loss as to how to deal with this.

Any ideas?

[RickJ]

At the risk of seeming to oversimply: Make the consequence for lying one that will get the point across. If she loves TV, lying results in no TV for 3 days. If she loves the mall, no mall for a week... etc.

Old habits are hard to break, but administering consequences in a loving manner will help her break it.

[J_9]

Rick is right. Sometimes simplicity works better than goals that are hard to achieve at 9 years old.

You must come up with a game plan, stick to it and be consistent. Rule changes will result in confusion to a young gal.

When mine tried lying I would simply ask "Is that the truth? Can I go ask Dad if that is what he said?" And the truth would inevitably come out.

Don't complicate punishments, make them simple and immediate. Rewards should be immediate too, otherwise the child fails to remember exactly what they are being punished or rewarded for.

[aqua@home]

I know I might get some criticism for this, but we have made the punishment for lying quite severe. We started this from a very young age... we make the kids brush their teeth with just a dab of dish soap. It works great. I have even threatened them with humiliation. I have said if they lie, everyone will know it... I said I would make up a special "LIAR" t-shirt for them to wear. Or I've called them "liar" for a couple of hours. To my kids honesty is very important. They do not lie, they do not want to have the reputation of a liar. They do not even like the idea of the consequences. It might seem harsh, but we don't have any liars. I have had a bit of trouble with my 5 year old, but he has learned ONCE with the soap and he has learned that I will NOT punish him if he tells the truth. He has stopped lying all together.

[Seven0h7]

Rick, She has gone without all the things she loves, for one week, two weeks. But it doesn't change.. She could be grounded for a week and finally get off grounding and within a few hours has already been caught in a lie.
We have tried all we can think of.
I also forgot to put in my first post that now she is starting to steal things. She has tried to sneak my 15y/o bras out of the house and takes her make up. We just last week caught her stealing money from us. It was only a dollar but it's the point of taking without asking..

[phillysteakandcheese]

Both people and children lie because it works for them. For every lie they are caught in, they've had 15 that got them whatever it is they wanted.

Since your child has been a chronic liar this since she was 6, and is now progressing to stealing, I would consider professional help.

The need to constantly be the center of attention through lies or stealing is a sign of an emotional problem.

[kp2171]

Not sure this will be a quick fix for you...

Once, when our young teen had lied and was being mouthy about it... as in "you're grounded"... "i dont care"... "ok now youre grounded from the phone"... "i dont care"... "now the computer"... "dont care"... as tears are welling up in her eyes, so she's lying...

Her punishment was cleaning the pots and pans, as in scrubbing the copper bottoms, and it had to be done (here are the words she NEVER wanted to hear) "to my satisfaction"

The first night after school and homework immediately after dinner she started scrubbing. She was callous and angry. She scrubbed them all evening until bedtime. Very little progress.

The second night she was feeling sorry for herself and quieter.

The third night she was finally remorseful by the time she had to go to bed, knowing that there was a lot more to do, and that it had no end. And when the pots were done, there were other tasks to be found.

She was still grounded for an extra week. We never had to do that punishment again.

The only concern I have is my cousins wife was routinely punished by having to clean. Therefore she absolutely hates cleaning now... so its more about finding a menial task that has no end, hopefully something you need done, and making it last.

I also think there needs to be consensus on both sides. I know the mother probably doesn't want to "waste" her time on the weekend punishing her daughter, but if she can be on board too the girl might give in.

[J_9]

While I do not believe in humiliation on ANY level, I have heard that the soap on a toothbrush can work.

But now she is stealing?

Your family and her Mom need to get on the same page as far as punishment is concerned.

She is obviously an attention seeker. Children want attention, that is a fact, they don't care how they get it, good or bad. It is still attention. Immediate reward for good behavior or immediate punishment for bad has always worked for my kids.

As others have said, this will not be an easy fix. I also agree that counseling may be in order.

[Seven0h7]

We have actually tried to discuss diciplinary actions and basic parenting with the Mom. Mom has tried to (so she says) but she also says she feels bad diciplining her because she doesent see them as much. So really no matter what we discuss with the Mom, its not up to us how she deals with the girls. Unfortunately.
I think the counciling idea is a good idea and had mentioned it too my 9y/o before. Suggesting that maybe a counciler would be able to help her find new ways to try to stop. But another unfortunate event is that a while back child services became involved with the girls and their mom and CS pulled her out of school and scared the crap out of her with all their questions. And funny because nothing ever came of the SC report. Now she refuses to speak to anyone "like that", even though we assure her that a therapist is not the same as a CS worker.
I know a good therapist, I will see if I can get her to see my daughter, like it or not.
I appreciate all the responses and still want any other ideas because its completely out of hand. Thanks all

[J_9]

I can certainly understand your dilemma... But the problem will most likely never be solved if mom is not on the same page and you and Dad.

One thing you could mention to your daughter about the counseling is that they will not be asking her questions or grilling her, so to speak. The counselor is there for her to talk to. Just one on one. Just talk about stuff. Nothing she says is wrong and nothing she says will get her or anyone else in trouble.

She is probably afraid now that either she or someone she loves will get in trouble if she talks about them, and that is not the case with professional counseling.

[valinors_sorrow]

This is serious stuff. Time for a professional evaluation. It will hopefully go a long way to motivating everyone to be on the same page too with a greater degree of comfort. My brother is a pathological liar and it has cost him dearly... so don't delay. I very much wish my parents could have considered something like this for him but it just was not in their vocabulary.

[s_cianci]

Get her to a professional immediately. This is beyond your ability to deal with. It won't go away by itself and it will only get worse as she gets older. Get her help now while there's still hope.

[Fr_Chuck]

What ever happened to taking them to the wood shed for a counseling meeting. I has worked for 100's of years until we found ourselves to smart to properly dispiline children.

But at this point, she would have nothing at all, and have to earn back the use of anything by lie free days.

And of course a professional would be needed .

[lucrecia]

Hello, I was doing some research on the web about lies because I have the Same problem you have. I was shocked to read your story because it is the same as mine. My husband and I got married and we each had a 1 child from a previous marriage. My boy is 6 and his girl is 7 -almost 8-. She is a liar, and we don't know what to do or why she does it. I'm shocked that the situation is so similar!
Did you get any useful information that you can pass on to me? please.
My girl lies about lots of very serious things, and gets people in trouble, and hurts people... it is SERIOUS. We are very worried.
Thanks
L

[tawnynkids]

While I don't have any quick fix ideas I would like to say my now 13, almost 14 year old, lied about everything. As did my son and other daughter. They lie for different reasons. To get out of trouble, for attention... it is a phase for some children and seems to subside around 11-12. My 13/14 year old doesn't really lie that much anymore. She grew out it for the most part. She will, well they all do, from time to time lie to get out of trouble. As the counselor says it "age appropriate misbehavior". Though this is not true for every child, it does seem to be fairly common.

But it is extremely common of children in a divorce/2 household situation. They lie to get attention, to get what they want, to get out of trouble etc. My daughter would lie to her father about me and to me about her father. She lied to get toys (said all her toys at my house were stolen so her dad would buy her more). Things like that. We never lived together but she definitely felt the separateness (not sure that is even a word but... ) of her parents. In counseling it came out that she really wanted us all to live together, not because we ever had and she missed it but because she had friends whose families were intact and more because she always felt torn between us. We got along pretty well, never really even disagreed on anything, she just felt it. So even in good circumstances children can still feel the negative things we do our best for them not to. Maybe she just needs to be taught to express her negative feelings in a healthy way and to deal with them. Counseling would be the best place for that.

Counseling really would be great. She does need consequences that fit the punishment as she does need to keep being told that lying is not acceptable. Let her know that she will be accepted no matter what but her actions will not. These kids sometimes just need an over abundance of reassurance we do and will love them unconditionally, they need more positive attention from us. Sometimes they do it just because they feel the separation of the parents in themselves (even if the parents separated long ago or were never even living together), sometimes because they are jealous of the step-parent/step-sibling getting the object parents attention and sometimes we can't define the reasons. Sometimes, it is just our (the parents) being separate that causes a child to feel lost and therefor they grab at, manipulate for and will do anything for any attention they can get, positive or negative. Especially if the parents do not get along and refuse to be on the same page with each other. The more hostile the parents relationship the more you will see it in the child actions. They can't express what they are feeling as well as they can just act it out.

Getting your family into family counseling may really help open her up so that she can express how she feels to you and in your home and feel less of a need to act her feelings out. I did say family by the way, don't make it just her problem, she may be doing it but it is a family issue and all should be supportive in helping to make it change.

Punish the action not the child. Meaning punish the act not the spirit, do not demean or humiliate. You can teach that an action can cause humiliation without humiliating a child. That will only serve to damage the self esteem.

I hope you can find something helpful in what I have said and hope it all works out for your family.

[lucrecia]

than kyou for your answer, it did help. We are already in counseling and she is in counseling as well by herself. We are doing everything we can thing of. The problem is a bit deeper than just liyng, it is a list of behaviors that sum up t oa very difficult picture... speccially when she reaches her teens year. We are worry that the low self steem, the constant lying, the tendency to manipulate people and the extreme need for attention is like the perfect mix for "teen disaster".
again ,thanks
L

[tawnynkids]

Lucrecia, I understand your search for answers and am glad you are finding something helpful but you may find even more if you post your concerns/question on your own post instead of posting on a different OP's (original poster) question. Good luck!

[momof4boyz]

I am in the same boat. We have his, mine, and ours!
My step son 8 yrs old, that is only with us half of the time, has gone from lying to stealing also. Not just lying, but lying about everything! Even stories about things that have happened throughout his day. "I threw a rock 20ft, I mean 30ft, well actually it really was 50ft." We don't EVER know when to believe him about anything any more. He has been stealing from his brothers and bringing home electronics and games from school, saying people gave them to him. His mother just keeps making excuses so we are kind of lost on this part. We punish him at our house, but not sure how to convince his mother to start caring about him too.
We thought this was a problem, but now our 6 yr old is starting to tell lies and also tried stealing from the store the other day. I'm not blaming the other boy, but when I made him tell the cashier what he did, she asked if he has any friends that might be a bad influence! Yes, but not one we are willing to get rid of. His dad is at his wits end and tried spanking him, but got kicked back. At times, his dad doesn't even want him to come back, but I won't let him give up on his own boy. We started with the spoon, one swat for lies, and 5 for stealing. Also grounding along for how long the crime fits. Either in the room or hard labor if they're out. So far its working! Any ideas for us would be great too, but its hard when only one family cares about his future!