[Alty]

I've always wanted a parrot, but my hubby isn't a bird lover. He adores our cockatiel, she's a rarity, very quiet, very loving, very gentle, hubby is her human, they have a bond.

I have the three dogs, 14 years old, 7 years old and 5 months old. The 4 bunnies, ranging in age, the bird and the fish from hell! I kid, but really, this fish is huge, I was told he wouldn't outgrow his tank, I was also told he probably wouldn't live more than a week or two, the lied! He's over 4 years old, still growing and will probably outlive us all! ;)

Each of my animals get quality time every day, have their run around, their pets, scratches and affection, except of course the fish, not much you can do with a fish. ;)

[sajjw]

Sajjw, while socializing a puppy is very vital in its development you need to be smart about doing it! You have no way on knowing if all of the animals in public places have all been vaccinated and in a place such as a dog park it could be very easy to pick up something like parvo especially since its incubates for up to two weeks and a puppy can be hopping around one day and on its death bed the next. Proper socializing can come AFTER the puppy has had its shots.

Sorry, Silverfoxkit I thought we were talking about after a puppy had its shots. I won't let my puppies on the ground outdoors whatsoever until it is vaccinated. Then I take it to all the most populated places I know so it can socialise and learn doggie communication skills. I have always had the importance of doing this drummed into me. 'It' sounds awlful but quicker than keep typing he/she!

[sajjw]

Dear Linnealand
As promised in a previous thread, I am writing in response to your post. Sorry for the delay, I should have done this sooner, its just I have been discouraged from the subject of breeding as I was so upset by some of the comments I have received previously and didn't want to start it all off again. I now want to post a question about backyard breeders in the general discussion area so thought it best if I clear up some misunderstandings first.

i would just like to add some things to the responses you received on your last post.

we don’t have enough information to know if you’re a backyard breeder or not. here are some questions that all responsible breeders would be able to answer. how did you choose who should be the mother and the father of your pups? what genetic comparisons did you do before deciding whether or not it was a good idea to breed from these two particular dogs? what genetic testing did you have done to make sure that you weren't carrying on any preventable medical issues through their heritage (preventable meaning that if they are carriers of certain genetic defects that they wouldn't have been bred from)? do the mother and the sire have papers? were the puppies granted papers? what breed club has you listed as a reputable breeder?

I hope that the following information will help you to realise that I am not a backyard breeder.
If you look below where it details a setter party 2008, the judge was a Mr Colin Waddell. He is a well known setter judge and if you go to Irish Setters Uk & Ireland Website you will see that this chap, Mr Colin Waddell deals with the advertising of irish setter pups produced by reputable breeders. His e mail address is [email protected] and his phone number is (England) 01206 256400. He will confirm for you that A) He is extremely fussy about whose puppies he will advertise and B) He advertised my puppies for me this time last year. I had to be vouched for and introduced by someone he knows before he would agree to put them on his site as he did not know me. This person was Miss Jilly Turner, my sires breeder and a friend and mentor. Her web site is Dazycutter Irish Setters - A Bravenet.com Hosted Site. If you go to her main page, you will see pictures of my Jess with her babies and their Dad too. Their fathers pedigree is on the tab at the top. Their mothers grandsire is a very famous setter called Starchelle Chicago Bear who was the supreme champion of crufts in 1995. I am happy to private message you my real name in order for you to speak about me to either Colin or Jilly. Colin kept nagging me to join the Irish Setters Breed Club (isae.co.uk at the bottom of the page) but at the time I was so busy with the pups I didn't get round to it and have not bothered since either I must admit.
Both my Jessies sire and dam are hereditarily clear of C.L.A.D. therefore she cannot possibly be affected. My Rueben's sire is C.L.A.D. clear and his mum is C.L.A.D. unaffected so he cannot be affected either therefore their puppies cannot possibly have it. Both Jess and Rue have had their eyes checked (for P.R.A. -progressive retinal atrophy or night blindness, which is a condition one has to be careful of with setters). I can provide their hip scores if you require these. Both Jess and Rue and their pups are all KC registered (again, I will PM you my real name and you can check) I can also provide the telephone number of my vet who knows me well as I have so many dogs, saw all my puppies and would be happy to vouch for me. I spent thousands of pounds on raising the last litter and sold them for £500 when Colin Waddell advised me to charge £750. It was very very hard work and I did not make a profit.
I decided to pair my two because they both have fantastic temperaments and are healthy, attractive and intelligent with good teeth and the correct bite. Rue has a very long coat which can be pain for picking up the entire contents of a field but looks gorgeous and Jessie has a rather short coat which is more practical. Jessie is prone to putting on weight whereas Rue is very slim. There are other factors I took into consideration but feel I am getting carried way here and typing too much.

Quote:
with all of that said, i’m a little stuck on what you wrote about the underpopulation problem of Irish Setters in your area. it reminded me of a claim someone on this site once made about there being no chihuahuas in Alaska, which made her want to breed hers. by the way, there are enough chihuahuas in Alaska. i’m just wondering where your information came from and who might have suggested that you to solve this problem through your dog. at the bottom of this post you’ll find a number of links for people you can contact for top notch information on everything about Irish Setters in the UK.

In hindsight , that probably was a bit of a silly thing to say. The thing is, there really are hardly any setters in my town and surrounding area. Nearly every time I take my dogs out, someone or other will stop me and exclaim " its rare to see one of these " I believe its because setters have a reputation for being scatty but neither of my three or any of the litter are like that so always dispute it when people say that to me. Also, many of the people who bought my pups complained that they had ever such a job finding a setter pup.

Quote
i know i said that we don’t know what kind of breeder you are, but from your post it sounds like you just bred your dog for the first time. from your thread in which tickle responded, it sounds like you have another dog that you’d like to breed from as well. i’m assuming that part of why you’re doing this is to continue to solve the underpopulation problem of the breed in your area? just out of curiosity, did you also encourage the new owners of the puppies to breed from them, too? if not, why? If you did, i have good news for you. we can do a little hypothetical math to show just how productive that continued breeding could really be.

No, I have Rueben, my boy who is the puppies Dad, Jessie, the puppies mum and their daughter Katy who I kept. I also have a castrated golden retiever boy of 8 years old. Im almost completely sure I dont want another litter but if I did it would be with the same parents. Of course I have not encouraged the new owners to breed, in fact quite the opposite. One of them mentioned they might like to and I said everything I could think of to put her off. I don't feel that people should breed unless they are experienced and know what they are letting themselves in for (and have no life and lots of money to spare!)

Quote
by the way, i think it's strange that you're discouraging people from considering the effects of backyard breeding even though you've said that you don't know what backyard breeding is. you seemed almost satisfied that you don’t know or care to know what the term means. why was that? well, while you might not have heard of the term "backyard breeding," i'm guessing that you have encountered the terms "overpopulation," "animal shelters," "rescue groups," "irresponsible breeding practices," "abandoned dogs," "rehomed dogs," etc.. i will also assume that somewhere along the line, you've heard about the millions of dogs that are put down every year because of the overpopulation problem. most of those dogs come from backyard breeders. they’re all related.

I don't understand why you are saying this. How/where have I said anything that discourages people from considering the effects of backyard breeding? I feel that everybody should be aware of what goes on and its consequences. Its horrible. I felt I was fighting the cause of the reputable breeder as I misunderstood and thought that even they were being condemned. I knew of course about backyard breeding, just had not heard that particular term for it before - is it an American term? I dont understand how I came over as satisfied. Why would anyone be satisfied with their ignorance??


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there’s something else i’m caught on, too. it sounded like you were suggesting that buying dogs for others is perfectly fine. then i guess that it would only be a good thing if your children's high school girlfriends or boyfriends give them dogs for the holidays? and it would also be cool if the dogs are named after them? most teen relationships last forever, right? i'm not sure if their university dormitories will accept the dogs, but you wouldn’t have any problem keeping the dogs instead would you? remember, it would be even better if those girlfriends or boyfriends have any relatives who are vets. that might even guarantee that there won't be any problems down the road. Ana52408 obviously loves this puppy and wants nothing but the very best for her, and all of that is very, very clear. however, reading this thread from the beginning, the people who responded with their thoughts and opinions might not have been coddling, but they were saying all of the right things. they were saying the same exact things that are recommended by the experts in the world of dogs, and they were doing it with the right intentions. i'm that all of us want only the best for Ana and her (really adorable) pooch.

All I was commenting on was that people on this site are so quick to start criticising when they dont know the facts. All Ana asked for was suggestions for a name. If people wanted to lecture her about buying dogs as presents it would be better if they checked with her things like 'does your boyfriend want a dog?' first. Likewise with me, before tickle starts saying "you would be considered a backyard breeder" perhaps she could establish if I were one or not. It has been explained to me that its the experts job to answer questions not ask them but I still feel that people on here are very quick to judge. It has also been explained to me why that is -that you do gets lots of stupid questions from backyard breeder and have all seen some horrible cruelty and I sort of understand. I never suggested that buying dogs for people is OK. I didn't comment on that.

the following is a list of contacts in the UK that deal exclusively with Irish Setters. you are welcome to contact any of the following organizations to hear what they think about any potential underpopulation problem of Irish Setters in your area.

South of England Irish Setter Club:
South of England Irish Setter Club Website
It looks like there are indeed enough Irish Setters in the south of England for them to have started a club.

a link to a large UK Irish Setter Rescue group:
Irish Setter Rescue
it's hard to miss the expansive scroll of photos of absolutely stunning Irish Setters at the bottom of the page, who have each been given up and were or are still in need of new homes.

you might not want to miss the different sections of the site. here are some of them:

Irish Setter Rescue
here are some beautiful Irish Setters that are looking for homes right now.

Irish Setter Rescue
look at this enormous list of gorgeous and rehomed Irish Setters.

there are at least enough Irish Setters around for the rescue group to throw a party in their honor.
The Setter Party 2008: "Colin Waddell our judge for the Fun Classes had a wonderful entry and every class was well filled."
Irish Setter Rescue

here are some more helpful links:

Irish Setters UK and Ireland
Irish Setters Uk & Ireland Website

Reputable Irish Setter Breeders across the UK
http://www.irishsetter.org.uk/Breeders.htm

Irish Setter UK Breed Clubs
Irish Setter Breed Clubs

Irish Setter Association, England
Irish Setter Association, England Website

;)

[Alty]

All I was commenting on was that people on this site are so quick to start criticising when they don't know the facts. All Ana asked for was suggestions for a name. If people wanted to lecture her about buying dogs as presents it would be better if they checked with her things like 'does your boyfriend want a dog?' first. Likewise with me, before tickle starts saying "you would be considered a backyard breeder" perhaps she could establish if I were one or not. It has been explained to me that it's the experts job to answer questions not ask them but I still feel that people on here are very quick to judge. It has also been explained to me why that is -that you do gets lots of stupid questions from backyard breeder and have all seen some horrible cruelty and I sort of understand. I never suggested that buying dogs for people is OK. I didn't comment on that.

Once again I have to say, if someone comes on this site claiming to be a breeder and is asking a question any breeder would know, then we have to assume that he/she isn't a breeder. A breeder knows that when a dog is hemorraghing that dog should be brought to the vet. A breeder knows at what age a dam is ready to breed A breeder knows how to care for pups born to the dam. So, if someone comes here asking these sorts of questions, well, they're quite obviously not a breeder and have no business breeding their dog.

Sajjw, we've all been her a long time and we get questions like the ones I mentioned every day. So, when a person comes to ask one of those questions, we know they are reputable breeders and they will get our wrath because we've done our homework, we know how many unwanted, unloved, genetically defective dogs are out there.

When someone comes online and defends these backyard breeders, it's usually because they themselves are backyard breeders and they want to justify what they are doing.

I know many breeders, none of them would ever recommend that someone just mate their dogs and hope for the best. None of them would give someone a pat on the back for trying to be a breeder without any info on breeding and without having taken the necessary precautions. You see, legitimate breeders don't only care about their dogs, but others as well. They want to ensure that only the best genes are brought out in each specific breed of dog.

So, when you defended a backyard breeder, we had a very hard time believing your claim to be a legitimate licensed breeder. Do you understand?

I don't want to keep fighting back and forth with you, that's not something I enjoy doing. But, rest assured, if you do side with the backyard breeders coming here to AMHD, don't expect me to slink off into a corner and say nothing, that's not something I'm willing to do, no matter how many people end up hating me for it.

I'm sorry that you felt attacked, but when you've been around for a while longer, start answering the same questions over and over and over again, because you feel you must, well, sooner or later you're going to get frustrated that so many people are doing something so very harmful to dogs. It's gets to you, it's gotten to all of us, but we still come here every day hoping to get through to these people and make them understand.

No hard feelings.

[Silverfoxkit]

The problem with a lot of these "breeders" who come here is that they jump in the ocean before they can swim, so to say. After the fact is not the time to be doing research or asking questions. There shouldn't be any "I think my dogs in labor but she's just bleeding and straining...." or "how can I tell if my dog is pregnant?"
They should have already been responsible enough to have those sort of answers before even considering breeding, let alone doing it! Breeding should not ever be treated like a trail and error sort of thing. An "error" can easily cost the dog and/or the puppies their lives. No dog is "just a dog". Dogs are living, breathing, thinking, feeling, loving creatures that deserve to be treated like such, not puppy factories, not money makers.

[Alty]

Silver, I had to spread the rep. Great post, so true. You said what I wanted to and did it with a lot fewer words. Bravo! :)

FYI, my poodles name was Silver. :)

[Silverfoxkit]

Thanks. I just wish that people would start getting the point, but no one ever seems to learn. They just get angry and defensive, some of it is probably from sub-conscious guilt that they know they are wrong, but instead of admitting it they choose to deny it and get angry. They wrap themselves up in a web of illusionary justifications.
"It's just one litter......" What if every dog had just one litter?
"I found them good homes..." Are you so certain that your puppies won't end up on the curb in a few months or years? The statistics argue otherwise, and they weren't made up either.
"I want my children to learn about birth..." Yes, lets raise another generation of people who taking breeding with a grain of salt. Its seems you need a lesson about death. Go assist in shelter euthanasia of puppies just like your own and see how you feel about it then. If you really want to teach your children. Why not search out a local reputable breeder and ask if your children may be witness to one of their dogs giving birth? Teach your children that not every dog should have puppies and that it should only be done by special people and with special dogs.
"If everyone stopped the breed would die out..." Not everyone should quit breeding, only the uneducated, unqualified breeders, which is probably 75% or more of them. We should be more worried about quality and not quantity.
"I want to have fun and make a few bucks at the same time.." Yeah? So do drug dealers. Does that mean they should have the right to push drugs?

[linnealand]

Hi, sajjw. For the record, as you and I know this but others members probably don't, we got to talk a little about some aspects of these things in private. From my side, I wanted to let you know that you had managed to soothe some of the concerns I had because of some of the things you had included in other posts. Unfortunately, it appears that the post in which you had included the information that inspired me to think differently about the kind of person you are (for the better) was pulled, and the thread was also closed, so there was no way for either one of us to establish that there. At that point I had mentioned that, personally, I didn't need you to do what you just did for my benefit, but I see you went through the trouble of posting it just the same. I'm a little curious to know why you didn't mention any of it again in your message and why this post was worded in a way that made it seem like that conversation never happened, but I suppose this is really about clearing some things up for your image in the public eye. I'm sure it might give any other members who were also (at that point legitimately) questioning some of the things you had brought up a chance to get to know more about you.

I know that it can sometimes be difficult to transition into becoming a part of the community here. I think there are a number of reasons for this, but one of the most significant can often be because this site runs a bit differently than many other sites. While there are a lot of places that have a "post and run" style, these boards have some "post and run" members, but its foundation is really based upon a good community of people who believe in supporting each other and are passionate about making sure that they can help dogs get the best care they can. I also know it can sometimes be as difficult for new members to learn the right approach through their tone and their content as it can sometimes be for older members to guess the real ideologies, backgrounds and reasons behind the information that different new members post here. I think this is something that you've also realized, and I'm impressed that you are attempting to establish yourself as a responsible player.

Overall, the fact is that this site can only benefit from people who do (and want to do) the right things, and people who are able to share their knowledge and experiences in various facets of dog care can do a lot to help the people who come here seeking good advice.

It looks like you've become inspired to do some good things through this site, so I'm looking forward to seeing you do your best to achieve that success in the future.

p. s. for future reference, there's a quote button above the reply box that you can use to separate another poster's quotes from your own responses. Using that method can help keep your post from getting lost in the original quote, or from making it seem as if the other poster was responsible for the new additions.

EDIT: p. p. s. silverfox, if I could have rated both posts back to back, you would have gotten 10 gold stars. I'm so glad you're here to say the things you say. And alty, I've got to spread the rep for you, too! Aw...

[sajjw]

Hi Linnealand, thanks for your post. I didn't mention that we had sorted things out via private message because I was concerned that this information might cause problems for you as other members seemed to have taken against me so strongly. Also, I didn't want it to sound like I was saying "well Linnealand thinks I'm OK". People should decide this for themselves based on information they are provided with. Yes you are right that its more others that I was trying to clear things up with because I want to be able to post questions on here without getting nasty comments in reply because members believe I am a backyard breeder.
I'm not sure which bit of my message on the closed thread you are referring to that I didn't mention in my recent post but I think it is the following... When I said that if nobody bred dogs, they would more or less die out eventually, I meant NOBODY. I was not in any way trying to justify backyard breeding. I had misunderstood things that had been said and thought that ALL breeders were being condemned, even the reputable ones like me. I was then misunderstood and taken to mean that its OK for peole to backyard breed when this is not whatsoever what I was saying. Of course I would never defend backyard breeding , I think it is a depicable practice.
Thanks for your advice Linnealand, it is much appreciated.

[Alty]

Sajjw, I'm glad that you came back to clear that up. You're correct, we did think you were condoning backyard breeding and that's why you got our wrath. I have no patience for backyard breeders. I just finished answering a thread about a 4 week old puppy that can't poop. The OP, obviously a young girl, said that the puppy was given to her early by the "breeder" because they were selling the dam. No puppy should be taken away from its mom at 4 weeks. These are the posts that make me sick to my stomach.

You are more than welcome here, I'm sorry we got off on the wrong foot. A little secret, when Linny first came to the site she got a bit of our bad temper too, a big misunderstanding, do you remember Linny? Now she's one of the first people I PM when I need help with a dog question. I respect her greatly, her knowledge, her compassion, her love for dogs.

So, can we start fresh? I hope so.

I hope to see you on the boards.

Alty :)

[starbuck8]

I agree that there could likely have been a misunderstanding here. We get so many posts from backyard breeders that aren't registered or licensed to do so. Many that are only in it for the money, and will breed any and all that they can, just for that extra buck! Many claim that they are breeding for the love of the breed, and truly believe they are doing the right thing, when often times they just don't understand that the breed that they have is in fact not a dying breed.

Then of course there are the backyard breeders that say they do it because they love their dogs and want their dog to just have the "experience" of having one, two, three litters. They are unknowledgeable, and ignorant to the reality of it all. They get very angry with us, because we know the damage and hurt that it causes, to these precious lives, and how many other dogs have to die, because of this.

I've not heard your credentials Sajjw, but if they are good enough for Linny, they are good enough for me. I know of Linny's dedication, as well as Alty's, and my own. And yes, I remember our little short lived spat Linny. We were on a different page in the same book, and we were both trying to find the same page! Haha! ;) We love you to death, Linny. We couldn't do without you here!

[linnealand]

Hello again, sajjw. The post that inspired me to write to you, in part to save you the time of posting the details of your test results, was the one where you had offered to do so. I assumed that you were being honest, and, truthfully, a lot of those questions were really rather rhetorical in nature in the first place. I don't expect that others need to satisfy my criteria to make me happy, but I do just hope that more people consider the kinds of questions I included in my post to you for the benefit of their dogs. I sincerely applaud the things in your response post that you've done as a responsible owner, from using a mentor to testing your dogs. I cannot overemphasise the importance of these things, and I'm glad you also take them seriously.

Okay, I'm in for a soapbox moment to discuss, simply as a point in general, why this is the case. In my opinion, genetic testing is surely amongst the most responsible things a breeder can do when choosing the parents of a litter. It's fairly expensive to have done, so most people who don't think it matters, for whatever reason -- because they aren't breeding extensively, or simply don't want to be bothered with this step (and in some cases don't even know this option exists) -- just don't do it. The truth is that this method of testing is still relatively new as far as breeding is concerned. Obviously, since it wasn't even an option before, everyone just bred without it. However, long term, some devastating consequences took place because of this lack of information, unfortunately including many cases where the breeders weren't aware (or couldn't have known) that they were breeding from dogs that were carriers of various hereditary diseases that weren't showing up in their dogs of breeding age. When a dog with one of those hereditary diseases was used to give birth or sire litters within the breeding world, it was a little like opening Pandora's box. Following generations could continue to breed other carriers, populating beloved breeds with some of the devastating hereditary issues we've come to know all too well. Among them range serious eye diseases like CEA (collie eye anomoly) and late onset progressive retinal atrophy, which causes blindness (although this can also be discovered in younger dogs), to other infamous muscoskeletal disorders like hip dysplasia. Unfortunately, those are just the beginning. For example, I'm swept away with love for the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel, but the extent to which a number of extremely serious genetic disorders has infiltrated the breed, from mitral valve disease and luxating patella to the horrors of Syringomyelia (a truly devastating brain and spine disease) is beyond belief; more than 90% of the breed is believed to carry the genes responsible for SM. Although the cost of testing for "rare" diseases such as SM can be extremely costly, I think that testing is going to be the hope and saving grace to really help this breed to survive, and I can't imagine anyone could even consider breeding them without having them fully screened beforehand.

Technically, even if your dog's parents were cleared for the diseases that are most frequently found in their breed, the offspring that are being considered for breeding are also supposed to get tested (if you think about it, it makes more sense that one might initially assume, and there are a number of reasons this is considered the ultimate standard. For one, although a dog's parents may have been tested for a well planned pregnancy, there have been cases where more than one sire mated with the mother during her heat cycle, of which the breeder was not always aware. I think much of it comes down to the old "better safe than sorry" adage.)

Now that genetic testing for hereditary diseases is available to prevent some of these problems from continuing to infiltrate the world of breeding, I think it's the most ethical choice as far as big breeding is concerned. It does cost money to do, but I don't think the price of testing can even be compared to the veterinary costs associated with trying to handle a serious problem once it arises, not to mention the immense suffering a dog with a serious hereditary disease can endure, and the heartbreak and emotional pain felt by all involved.

It's very easy to get carried away with these thoughts, and perhaps I've just digressed.
Anyway, the point of all of that was simply to say that it's important. Of course, there are so many other aspects that are involved in breeding and overall dog care that are at least as important as all of that is. It's good to know that you're looking to take so many of those elements seriously, and I've appreciated your changes in the threads, which have been quite apparent. I've enjoyed many of your latest posts.

Because of the major difference in the tone and content of your posts, since you have been putting forth big efforts, and since you have gone back to try to clear up some of the things you had talked about, I'm surely willing to keep looking forward and chalk the past up to some elements of miscommunication, and I'm not only one willing to do that. So you understand things from our position, the difference between the earlier posts and the recent posts is tremendous. I think it would have saved a whole lot of time and concern had some of those significant details been referenced earlier. I know that a lot of members were thrown off by a lot of the things you wrote earlier on, and, whether it was your intention or not, I do think there were occasions where it was a little too easy to read as argument for argument's sake, or as appearing to defend the people who were making poor choices while putting down people who were saying a lot of the right things, as waving some significant looking red flags in general. I think the proof of that was in the reaction they stirred up, and many of us were naturally concerned about what you meant in writing them. Despite all of that, I'm glad we're moving on to better things now.

I know that some of us can be tough cookies when it comes to red flag posts in general, especially if there is any possibility whatsoever that the person posting them might appear to be doing anything that could be bad for the well being of any pets or animals. I'm sure you realize is that it's all based on the best intentions. Frankly, while, in the end, you might not fall into elements of the risky category, there are some eagle eyes watching out for those big red flags at all times simply because there are people who regularly brush through here asking the kinds of questions that can only lead others to assume that they haven't done a fraction of a fraction of the work needed to care for their pets with the utmost level of responsibility. For that reason, I really do think there are times when a somewhat stern reality check is certainly in order. I don't think that's anyone's favorite time of day. Things like that are usually very sad or plain old frustrating to deal with. The best times are when we get to be totally supportive, caring, and compassionate, and fortunately there are so many occasions to celebrate all of that as well. Surely this site benefits from everyone who is here to help others, and I'm glad you've really turned things around to become one of them. That's great news.

As for you, alty and starby, you lovely, gorgeous little devils... :D I'm so glad I get to just love and adore you girls as much as I do. No doubt, to some extent, we're all tough cookies (probably always have been, probably always will be)... but we're still cookies, aren't we? ;) yes, it's all true. Even li'l miss linny went through a little initiation process via the pet board machine. I could compare it to the existence endured by some pledges at some hardcore sorority house at a crazy party school, including the hangover but excluding the alcohol with which one could otherwise hope to numb the awful pain, ROFL (I think that analogy might wind up in my signature). As the story goes, we got into a discussion on a subject in which we all agreed completely in the first place, but fortunately the "beating in" didn't last too long, LOL. Really, the best part is that it didn't take long for us to become friends, and I honestly can't say enough good things about them today. I'd be there for them in a flash whenever they need me, and I know they'd do the same. Tough cookies we may be, but we're also sugar coated, heart shaped and topped with rainbow sprinkles. I swear. :)

p. s. I love the avatar. And the links to the pics... totally gorgeous.

[Alty]

tough cookies we may be, but we're also sugar coated, heart shaped and topped with rainbow sprinkles. I swear.

Don't forget crunchy, we're crunchy! ;)

Aw Linny, right back at you sweetie, love you to bits, don't know what we'd do without you.

Believe it or not I also had a tough initiation into AMHD. I made one mistake, a little spelling error/wrong word and got knocked down a few notches by the experts. I stayed off the site for 2 months and then one day I got a notice, "we haven't seen you in a while, why not check if there are any questions you can help with" heck I didn't even remember my password, had to request a new one.

Then I started getting into a groove, got some greenies, started feeling like I was making a difference and voilà, I'm still her a bit more than a year later.

Sneezy and I actually fought the first time we "met" as did Scott Gem and I. Cred and I got into so many fights that as soon as the mods saw us on the same thread they were likely to shut it down before the fireworks began. I extended an olive branch, we became friends, albeit with very different views, and we've never looked back.

It's funny actually, some of the people I hold most dear on this site started with a difference of opinion. So Sajjw, who knows, maybe one day we'll all be saying "remember when you first joined, boy did we disagree!" ;)

[linnealand]

AMHD: cookies + advice. If we were licorice, we'd be All Sorts + advice. If we were donuts, we'd be donuts + bear claws + advice. If we were... okay, I think you get the point.

Perhaps the reason we've been more prone to discussions from the get-go is because we're a solidly passionate bunch. The truth is that there are a lot of people here with great intentions and a lot of character. We're all pretty different, too. No doubt, there are some truly amazing, beautiful and magnificent people on this site. Sure, there are some crazy, poop-caked monkeys in the mix too, but you'll find some of those in any group this large. Sometimes striking the perfect balance between being nice and being "honest" ain't so easy. Admittedly, there are some people whose company I always adore, and there can be others whose posts will have me tapping the ignore button in my mind with abandon. I think it's simply par for the course. We're also fairly limited in being able to understand who we're speaking with since everything we do gets written and read over the internet. It would be much easier if we were face to face. (plus, a lot of us girls and boys have some very pretty faces, which would make the experience even easier. Alty and starby run high on that list.) ;) I'm waiting for the profile feature to start working again. I think that could help quite a bit regarding new members. The introduction section can be a big help, too, although I still have to put my intro together. Hmm...

Alty, wouldn't I jump at the chance to chat away like silly girls in a statue tipped piazza with some espressos on the way! Of course, you, starby and I could just as easily crack open a bottle of Chianti and accomplish the same thing. Ah... Canadian snow angels and a whole day of sledding? Love it. Oh, what I wouldn't do just to see icicles! It feels like forever since the last time I touched snow. (well, it's only been a year, but still. You know I'm a winter's winter kind of girl.) of course, window shopping (um, yes, I meant going googly eyed over the tall dark and handsome types) on a sunny beach wouldn't be so bad either. Okay, so we're not on the market, but I'm buying into the "you can look but you can't touch" rule.. . were we talking about puppies and our beloved dogs? Okay, we must bring them along. Do Italian trained dogs bark with an accent? We'll have to ask Chewy and the gang to find out, eh? :D

Okay, I'm off to start cooking. It's cold and rainy out, and today is a homemade chowder and pajamas sort of Sunday. Loving it!

[starbuck8]

Poop-caked monkeys?. ROFLMAO! I can send you a box of icicles my sweets. How 'bout the 10 pounder that hit me in the head a few weeks ago? Lol. I could pack it up tight with a bottle of Chiante, and it would be nice and chilled, by time time we get to Italy. You want to jump a flight to Italy right Alty? I know you do! :D L'italiano degli uomini inchinandosi a nostri piedi, e swooning noi! Lol!

Of course, we could also be ski bunnies, and sit in the lodge with a cup of hot buttered rum, around the fireplace, and wait for the muscle bound ski instructors to arrive! We of course would need our sled dogs to bat their adorable big eyes, so the guy behind the bar would keep them coming! Then of course, we would have to go out and make snow angels, and build a snow hunk!

Oh so much fun! ;) :D

[ISneezeFunny]

Not sure when this thread went from "naming a dog" to something else...

But... I heard I'm pretty good at naming things... dogs... cars... girls...

[Alty]

not sure when this thread went from "naming a dog" to something else...

but...I heard I'm pretty good at naming things...dogs...cars...girls...

Darnit, it's true. Sneezy named our beagle puppy, I don't know how it happened but it did. He's like mold, he grows on you. ;)

As for girls, sweetie, I'm still not terribly fond of the nickname you gave me and Sydney absolutely despises hers. :(

[linnealand]

HAhahahaha, I'm in. snow hunks. That's excellent. Rum buttered ski instructors? Lol, emergency! I'm on my way. Madam, I don't know how you put that translation together, but I got your message. :) I would love AMHD in Italian. Languages unite! By the way, what's up with everybody on the language pages getting translations from English to Sanskrit for their tattoos? I don't know about you, but I wouldn't be getting a tattoo on my body from something a total stranger told me over the internet. Couldn't they be lying? Or wrong? Yeah. You know, one of the reasons I stayed with AMHD was to keep my English in gear. It has gotten rusty! It sounds weird, but I live 99% of my life in another language. I think that's nuts. You know, we wouldn't have to limit those plans to Italy or Canada. I think there's a line of umbrella tipped pineapples with our names on them in Jamaica.

Sneezykins, you're totally right. I know Bela got her name, but the next dog that comes in here should be named Jamaica. See how that works? It's like tying a bow. ;)

[linnealand]

Alty, what names could possibly be that bad?

Then again, sneezy named himself after a dwarf.

[Alty]

alty, what names could possibly be that bad?

then again, sneezy named himself after a dwarf.

Trust me, they're bad. ;)

He calls Sydney (my daugher) "Dimples" she hates it, actually growled at him once. It's cute.

He has nicknames for all his girls because he has trouble remembering their real names. Personally I think the nicknames are harder, but that's just me.

But he did name our Chewy and the name fits. :)