[Wondergirl]

Whatever - gender doesn't matter to you, does it? :D

Wait'll I tell everyone you actually cracked a smile! Maybe twice!

[Tj3]

Wait'll I tell everyone you actually cracked a smile! maybe twice!

I do it all the time. You need to stop and take the time to notice now and then.

[Wondergirl]

I do it all the time. You need to stop and take the time to notice now and then.

You mean we might even LIKE you if we met you?

[Tj3]

You mean we might even LIKE you if we met you?

Don't even dare think that - it might ruin your whole day to think that would be even possible. :eek:

[Wondergirl]

Don't even dare think that - it might ruin your whole day to think that would be even possible. :eek:

Actually, I agree with a lot of what you say -- just not all of it.

[Tj3]

Actually, I agree with a lot of what you say -- just not all of it.

I hope that did not hurt too much ;)

[Wondergirl]

I hope that did not hurt too much ;)

Nope. And I'm actually very nice.

[Tj3]

Nope. And I'm actually very nice.

I think that it would be good and would make for more effective and interesting discussions if you would show that more in your discussions, especially when you disagree!

[Wondergirl]

I think that it would be good and would make for more effective and interesting discussions if you would show that more in your discussions, especially when you disagree!

I'm always nice when I disagree. Heaven help you if I am not!

[Tj3]

I'm always nice when I disagree. Heaven help you if I am not!

Hmmm... I may disagree, but I hope to see you use that approach in the future.

[Wondergirl]

Hmmm ... I may disagree, but I hope to see you use that approach in the future.

Please tell me when I was not nice to you.

[Tj3]

Please tell me when I was not nice to you.

Just about every time that you disagreed. But I am opened to being convinced otherwise if you approach differs in the future.

[Tj3]

Leviticus, about as exciting a book as a visit to the dentist

I used to think that about all of the Old Testament when I was younger, but when I studied it and understood it in the context of what it is about, I find it all pretty interesting now. There is always something new and uinteresting to learn in any book of the Bible.

[Criado]

To answer the original question, I believe that the issue is NOT homosexuality BUT homosexual ACT.

So, one can be a Christian and Homosexual (less homosexual acts) as well.

Sin, according to bible, is doing what is forbidden, not doing what is commanded, and doing something out of faith. Thus, sin is not based on state of being but based on acts.

[Tj3]

To answer the original question, I believe that the issue is NOT homosexuality BUT homosexual ACT.

No, the OP did say "homosexual".

So, one can be a Christian and Homosexual (less homosexual acts) as well.

But will not remain a homosexual after being saved.

Sin, according to bible, is doing what is forbidden, not doing what is commanded, and doing something out of faith. Thus, sin is not based on state of being but based on acts.

Jesus was explicit in Matthew 5 that sin is not the mere act, but also the inclination / desire that one has prior to doing the act (or even if one does not do the act).

[Wondergirl]

But will not remain a homosexual after being saved.

He will always be a homosexual.

Jesus was explicit in Matthew 5 that sin is not the mere act, but also the inclination / desire that one has prior to doing the act (or even if one does not do the act).

A state of being (as mentioned in the previous post) is not an inclination.

[Tj3]

He will always be a homosexual.

Why would you say that? Can you provide a scriptural basis for that?

We have an example in scripture where homosexuals changed after receiving Christ, and I have met men who have been likewise.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

The power of God can change a person. After receiving Christ, as Paul says in Romans, we are no longer slaves to sin.

Rom 6:5-9
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin. 8 Now if we died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him, 9 knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more.
NKJV

Why would God free others from sin, but not do the same for homosexuals? Why do so many people try to make homosexuality a "special" sin.

[Wondergirl]

We have an example in scripture where homosexuals changed after receiving Christ, and I have met men who have been likewise.

And I have had the opposite experience.

You are talking about people who believe what they are told to believe and to ignore what they experience. They have been told that being homosexual is a matter of Doing and not a matter of Being. If they have sex with a woman while thinking of a man, that is not doing it with a man, thus they believe they are not homosexual. (And they certainly will not admit to you that they were thinking of a man at the time!)

Faith in Jesus will make them Not Homosexual? Homosexual is what is, and is what they are to their very core. How about eye color? Wearing green contact lens do not make eyes blue; repressing homosexual impulses does not make one heterosexual.

[galveston]

I must point out that Wondergirl,(and others) disagree with the Bible. (What else is new?)

2 Cor 5:17
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.
(KJV)

Gal 6:15
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
(KJV)

A saved person is a CHANGED person. A mere claim to being a Christian proves nothing unless backed up by a lifestyle.

AND: Under tha OT Law, only actions were judged. Under the New Covenant, attitudes are judged, so NT standards are higher than OT standards.

[Tj3]

And I have had the opposite experience.

All there has to be is one to show it is possible, and we have many more than that, along with Biblical testimony to the truth of such changes.

You are talking about people who believe what they are told to believe and to ignore what they experience.

Now you are judging others who you do not even know, because their testimony disagrees with what you believe. That does not sound very logical or very compelling. Further, you are arguing on the basis of what you have NOT experienced regarding the number of homosexuals who you have personally known and still know. That can only be a valid basis for stating a fact if you can state and validate it as fact that you know everything that has ever happened to every homosexual from the beginning of creation, and you know what will happen to those who are still alive or have not yet been born. Otherwise you cannot say that it cannot happen even based solely upon experience - even if we ignore scripture.