[Wondergirl]

But if you don't know what an orientation is, how can you possibly understand what a "sexual orientation" is?

I stick by the definition of sexual orientation in Wikipedia.

If you think that you know what an orientation is, just spit it out, and let's move forward. What are you afraid of?

Why is this word so important to you?

[Wondergirl]

inerrant, infallible

i.e. literally understood

[Tj3]

I stick by the definition of sexual orientation in Wikipedia.

So you still refuse to answer the question asked.

Why is this word so important to you?

Do you ever actually read my posts? This was answered several times.

[inthebox]

Just me, I don't think being tempted is a sin, but acting on that temptation is.




G&P

[Tj3]

Just me, I don't think being tempted is a sin, but acting on that temptation is.

I agree. Temptation is external. Once one accepts that temptation, and accepts it as their own desire / orientation, then, according to scripture, a sin has been committed even before the physical act.

[asking]

And from the secular world, not a single credible study has yet concluded that sexual orientation was something that people are born with.

No one's sexual identification is clearly expressed until about age 5. So whether you are born gay or straight or it develops sometime during those 5 years would be hard to pin down, but most researchers are looking at what happens in the womb during human development, not at what happens to toddlers.

Likewise, by the way, just for the record, human embryos do not all start female and then become male due the influence of testosterone. We start with no sex organs at all -- just as we have no kidneys, liver or any other organs. Early embryos have no testes, ovaries, or external genitalia and are described as being in the "indifferent stage" until about 7 weeks (9 weeks to a doctor).

Human embryos BEGIN to develop male or female organs between days 50 and 70 after fertilization, after which they are partly differentiated and everything can continue to develop. The Y antigen gene on the Y chromosome induces the development of the testes. If there is no Y chromosome, the embryo normally develops as a female, although there are exceptions. For example, the over expression of a single gene (WNT-4) can result in an XY female. That is, an individual who is genetically male but fully female otherwise. At about 20 weeks, the testes begin to secrete testosterone, which induce the development of the penis and scrotum. Intersex individuals--in which one sex is not easily assigned-- make up about 1 in 2500 births.

None of which has anything to do with gender identity, which as I say, finishes developing at around age five.

[Wondergirl]

I agree. Temptation is external. Once one accepts that temptation, and accepts it as their own desire / orientation, then, according to scripture, a sin has been committed even before the physical act.

So until a homosexual accepts the temptation and acts on his desires, he has not sinned.

[Tj3]

None of which has anything to do with gender identity, which as I say, finishes developing at around age five.

You don't have kids, do you?

[Akoue]

No one's sexual identification is clearly expressed until about age 5. So whether you are born gay or straight or it develops sometime during those 5 years would be hard to pin down, but most researchers are looking at what happens in the womb during human development, not at what happens to toddlers.

Likewise, by the way, just for the record, human embryos do not all start out female and then become male due the influence of testosterone. We start out with no sex organs at all -- just as we have no kidneys, liver or any other organs. Early embryos have no testes, ovaries, or external genitalia and are described as being in the "indifferent stage" until about 7 weeks (9 weeks to a doctor).

Human embryos BEGIN to develop male or female organs between days 50 and 70 after fertilization, after which they are partly differentiated and everything can continue to develop. The Y antigen gene on the Y chromosome induces the development of the testes. If there is no Y chromosome, the embryo normally develops as a female, although there are exceptions. For example, the over expression of a single gene (WNT-4) can result in an XY female. That is, an individual who is genetically male but fully female otherwise. At about 20 weeks, the testes begin to secrete testosterone, which induce the development of the penis and scrotum. Intersex individuals--in which one sex is not easily assigned-- make up about 1 in 2500 births.

None of which has anything to do with gender identity, which as I say, finishes developing at around age five.

Oh so very helpful. Yet another "thank you" is in order, so here it is: Thank you.

[Tj3]

So until a homosexual accepts the temptation and acts on his desires, he has not sinned.

Your question is a contradiction - until a person accepts the temptation for homosexual desires, it is not a sin. When the person agrees to become a homosexual, then sin has occurred because they have accepted those desires for themselves. A person is not a homosexual until the decision to accept the temptation has been accepted as their own desire.

Scripture is explicit that a sin occurs before the physical act has occurred.

[Wondergirl]

A person is not a homosexual until the decision to accept the temptation has been accepted as their own desire.

Someone sure hasn't been reading these posts!

[Tj3]

Someone sure hasn't been reading these posts!

Then by all means, take a few minutes and go back and read the ones that you missed.

[Akoue]

I agree. Temptation is external. Once one accepts that temptation, and accepts it as their own desire / orientation, then, according to scripture, a sin has been committed even before the physical act.

Not sure how the "/" got slipped in between "desire" and "orientation" there. Get it out.

[asking]

I agree. Temptation is external. Once one accepts that temptation, and accepts it as their own desire / orientation, then, according to scripture, a sin has been committed even before the physical act.

Why can't temptation come from within?

[Wondergirl]

So whether you are born gay or straight

Thank you for all your clarifications, asking. I was hoping you would show up.

[Tj3]

Not sure how the "/" got slipped in between "desire" and "orientation" there. Get it out.

Who do you think you are giving orders to others as what they can and cannot think or post?

Methinks you should take a night away from the board and until you can come down off your high horse and perhaps get a more realistic view of yourself.

[Tj3]

Why can't temptation come from within?

It does not matter where you think that the original temptation occurred, the key point is whether the person accepts the desire / orientation for themselves.

[Wondergirl]

It does not matter where you think that the original temptation occurred, the key point is whether the person accepts the desire / orientation for themselves.

So no desire, no sin.

[Tj3]

So no desire, no sin.

If the person rejects the temptation for the homosexual desire / orientation, then they will not be guilty of the sin of homosexuality, and if they have no desire / orientation, then they will not commit the act and be guilty of the sin of committing the homosexual act either.

That does not mean that the person is sinless - they are not - we have all sinned (Rom 3:23). What I do not understand is why those who defend homosexuality treat it as a "special" sin that somehow differs from all other sins in the Bible. The fact is that whether a person is a homosexual or not, we have all sinned and all sins (other than the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) are all equal. So to make homosexuality into a lesser sin (where only the act matters) is entirely wrong.

[Akoue]

If the person rejects the temptation for the homosexual desire / orientation, then they will not be guilty of the sin of homosexuality, and if they have no desire / orientation, then they will not commit the act and be guilty of the sin of committing the homosexual act either.

That does not mean that the person is sinless - they are not - we have all sinned (Rom 3:23). What I do not understand is why those who defend homosexuality treat it as a "special" sin that somehow differs from all other sins in the Bible. The fact is that whether a person is a homosexual or not, we have all sinned and all sins (other than the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit) are all equal. So to make homosexuality into a lesser sin (where only the act matters) is entirely wrong.

What is the difference between rejecting the desire and not acting on the desire? How does one a reject a desire other than by refusing to act on it?