[classyT]

This is a discussion board without ratings. You have no business coming on here (as a moderator!!!) and giving approval ("great job") to one of the parties.

Ouch! Wondergirl, I think I'm officially scared. Hee hee. ;) Be gentle with me.. I cry easy.

[Wondergirl]

Yes he did...and then sin entered in...

And when sin entered in, everything went topsy turvy. Weeds spouted, animals killed and ate each other, man had to work for a living, women had pain in childbirth, and not only were men attracted to women, they were also attracted to other men.

[Wondergirl]

ouch! wondergirl, i think i'm officially scared. hee hee. ;) Be gentle with me..i cry easy.

I didn't realize you are a moderator.

[Akoue]

I thought that we were discussing homosexuality, not the propagation.

Me too. That's why I thought it odd when you brought it up:

Really? How would you expects homosexuals to multiply?

As for orientation, Wondergirl's definition of *sexual* orientation looks good to me. Can't see how nautical or other uses of the term are on point. Why not stick with the *relevant* sense of "orientation".

[Tj3]

And when sin entered in, everything went topsy turvy. Weeds spouted, animals killed and ate each other, man had to work for a living, women had pain in childbirth, and not only were men attracted to women, they were also attracted to other men.

Now you are starting to understand. As men entered into sin, they chose sinful orientations.

[Tj3]

Me too. That's why I thought it odd when you brought it up:

I didn't - read carefully.

As for orientation, Wondergirl's definition of *sexual* orientation looks good to me. Can't see how nautical or other uses of the term are on point.

Well, if we cannot come to terms on what an "orientation" actually is, then to discuss what a specific type of orientation is will be no less clear to you.

So, humour me, what do you believe an orientation is?

[classyT]

I didn't realize you are a moderator.

hey, I'm teasin you. I agree with you as far as the state of the world after sin entered in.

[classyT]

Now you are starting to understand. As men entered into sin, they chose sinful orientations.

Tee hee... I don't think she is starting to understand...

[Wondergirl]

Now you are starting to understand. As men entered into sin, they chose sinful orientations.

No, not a choice, but from birth -- just as many are born heterosexuals (and don't choose it), others are born homosexuals (and don't choose it).

[Wondergirl]

I understood him to be coming on here as a participant giving his opinion, just as you have been doing.

His "opinion" was only approval of you. He did not add to the discussion in any way.

[Wondergirl]

It is interesting how you refuse to answer my question each time that I ask it.

You asked for my definition of orientation. I told you I will go with Wikipedia's. What more do you want?

[Tj3]

No, not a choice, but from birth -- just as many are born heterosexuals (and don't choose it), others are born homosexuals (and don't choose it).

Really? And where do you find that in scripture, and why then are men able to choose?

Rom 1:18-32

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
NKJV

[Tj3]

You asked for my definition of orientation. I told you I will go with Wikipedia's. What more do you want?

I keep asking you for a generic definition of what you believe an orientation is.

Why do you refuse?

[Akoue]

So, humour me, what do you believe an orientation is?

I might be more inclined to humor you if it didn't seem so much like a pointless diversion. We're talking about sexual orientation. A definition of "sexual orientation" has been proffered. I can see no reason not to stay on subject. If the nautical meaning of "orientation" is relevant in any way, I confess I must be stupid, because I just don't see how.

[Wondergirl]

Really? And where do you find that in scripture, and why then are men able to choose?

How old were you when you chose heterosexuality?

[classyT]

Really? And where do you find that in scripture, and why then are men able to choose?

Rom 1:18-32

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse, 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. 22 Professing to be wise, they became fools, 23 and changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image made like corruptible man--and birds and four-footed animals and creeping things. 24 Therefore God also gave them up to uncleanness, in the lusts of their hearts, to dishonor their bodies among themselves, 25 who exchanged the truth of God for the lie, and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever. Amen. 26 For this reason God gave them up to vile passions. For even their women exchanged the natural use for what is against nature. 27 Likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust for one another, men with men committing what is shameful, and receiving in themselves the penalty of their error which was due. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a debased mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil-mindedness; they are whisperers, 30 backbiters, haters of God, violent, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 undiscerning, untrustworthy, unloving, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the righteous judgment of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same but also approve of those who practice them.
NKJV

AMEN! How do you get around these verses? I don't get it. He says it is not natural.. to me that means they are NOT BORN THIS WAY!

[Wondergirl]

AMEN! how do you get around these verses? I don't get it. he says it is not natural..to me that means they are NOT BORN THIS WAY!

Same question to you. When did you choose to be heterosexual instead of homosexual?

[classyT]

Wondergirl,

I was BORN that way. Want to know how I wasn't born... a drug addict. I chose that lifesyle when I got addicted to prescription drugs. Course the world tells me I was born that way but I know better. You take enough of those suckers and you are going to get addicted. It was MY choice to take the pills.
I don't pretend to understand homosexual tendencies but I do believe God's word and I'm not going to rationalize what he has said. It is wrong and I can't twist it to make it right.

[Akoue]

he says it is not natural..to me that means they are NOT BORN THIS WAY!

What you think the word "natural" means? I ask because it's not obvious to me why not natural entails that they are not born this way. Do you regard birth defects as unnatural? People are born with those every day.

[classyT]

LOL... birth defects aren't sin. Sin is a choice.