Ask Experts Questions for FREE Help !
Ask
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #121

    Feb 14, 2009, 08:57 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The windows of your mind have been painted shut too?????
    See what I mean about how some folk go personal when one dares disagree with them?

    All you have to do is scrape together some CREDIBLE evidence for your claim.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #122

    Feb 14, 2009, 08:58 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Nice try, but we all know who those are who turn nasty when anyone dares disagree with them.
    I'm hoping you won't start again either.

    Now, how about that supposed evidence of Paul being a homosexual? Have you come up with anything concrete, or is that list which have absolutely nothing in it in that regard all that you can scrape together?
    I can't do any better than Paul's own words and writings. Every item on the list can be referenced to his epistles.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #123

    Feb 14, 2009, 08:59 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    I'm hoping you won't start again either.
    Heh heh... I know that you hope that I won't start disagreeing with you again, but I cannot do otherwise when you make false and unsubstantiated claims suggesting Paul was homosexual.

    I can't do any better than Paul's own words and writings. Every item on the list can be referenced to his epistles.
    Then you concede that you have nothing credible to suggest that he was homosexual.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #124

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:00 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Then you concede that you have nothing credible to suggest that he was homosexual.
    Only what Paul himself has written. If that doesn't work for you, oh well.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #125

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:02 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Only what Paul himself has written. If that doesn't work for you, oh well.
    Paul's writings are clear - He spoke very clearly about the sinfulness of homosexuality.

    1 Cor 6:9-11
    9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
    NKJV

    That works for me. It seems to be you that has the problem with that.

    BTW, did you miss the fact that Paul was married? I noticed that you failed to acknowledge that.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #126

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:04 PM

    Again --

    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3
    Nice try, but we all know who those are who turn nasty when anyone dares disagree with them.
    I'm hoping you won't start again either.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #127

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:05 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Again --


    I'm hoping you won't start again either.
    Like I said before, I know that you hope that I won't start disagreeing with you again, but I cannot do otherwise when you make false and unsubstantiated claims suggesting Paul was homosexual.

    Just try to control your reactions.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #128

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:06 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Paul's writings are clear - He spoke very clearly about the sinfulness of homosexuality.
    He hated what he was.

    How many homosexuals are married? Why do they marry?
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #129

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:14 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    He hated what he was.
    Where does he say that? The closest that I see to that is where he says that he hates what he does when he slips in the war against the flesh:

    Rom 7:14-25
    14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
    NKJV


    BTW, please note the context - Paul sattes that this is not specific to ANY sin, but a general discussion regarding the effects of sin:

    Rom 7:8-12
    8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
    NKJV


    So where does he say that he hates what he is?

    Indeed, he said the exact opposite:

    2 Tim 1:12
    12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
    NKJV


    So where does he say that he hates what he is?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #130

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:23 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    Where does he say that? The closest that I see to that is where he says that he hates what he does when he slips in the war against the flesh
    There you go!

    Indeed, he said the exact opposite
    He was at the same time both sinner and saint. In his second letter to the Corinthians, he wrote, "But thanks be to God, who hath given us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #131

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:25 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    There you go!
    So I take it then that you concede that he did NOT say that he hates what he is, but rather was speaking in generalities about sin (and NOT about homosexuality), in stating that he DOES what he hates.

    He was at the same time both sinner and saint. In his second letter to the Corinthians, he wrote, "But thanks be to God, who hath given us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)
    This describes all who are saved in Christ and yet live at war with our flesh.

    Again, nothing even suggests homosexuality.

    Do you have anything else?
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #132

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:26 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    See what I mean about how some folk go personal when one dares disagree with them?
    Jist havin' a wee bit o' fun wit you.

    All you have to do is scrape together some CREDIBLE evidence for your claim.
    The epistles aren't credible? Wait'll I tell Akoue and the others!
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #133

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:27 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    The epistles aren't credible? Wait'll I tell Akoue and the others!
    Sigh - you like twisting what others say don't you?

    The Epistles are credible - it is your argument which isn't because the epistles say absolutely nothing remotely close to what you want them to say.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #134

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:33 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    So I take it then that you concede that he did NOT say that he hates what he is, but rather was speaking in generalities about sin (and NOT about homosexuality), in stating that he DOES what he hates.
    hahahahahahahahahaha Funny, Tom. Or Funny Tom. You continue to prove my point and support my argument.

    This describes all who are saved in Christ and yet live at war with our flesh.
    And being human -- heterosexual as well as homosexual -- isn't being at war with our flesh?

    Again, nothing even suggests homosexuality.
    The Corinthians?? The CORINTHIANS?? "But thanks be to God, who hath given us [all of us who struggle with "the flesh"] the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)

    Do you have anything else?
    I'm good for all night. You getting tired and running out of fuel?
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #135

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:35 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by classyT View Post
    Wondergirl,
    Everything you listed he most certainly did say...but you only tell HALF of the story.
    This is indeed the issue. What scripture says is true. But it is wrong for someone to take snippets out of context to try to justify an argument which is entirely contrary to what scripture actually says. I remember warnings in various part of the Bible regarding adding to, or removing things from God's word.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #136

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:37 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    This is indeed the issue. What scripture says is true. But it is wrong for someone to take snippets out of context to try to justify an argument which is entirely contrary to what scripture actually says. I remember warnings in various part of the Bible regarding adding to, or removing things from God's word.
    *writing this down in permanent marker*
    May I quote you? It will come in handy soon, I'm sure.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #137

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:39 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    hahahahahahahahahaha Funny, Tom. Or Funny Tom. You continue to prove my point and support my argument.
    Really? You claimed scripture said one thing, and when we read it, it says something much different - exactly how does that prove your point?

    And being human -- heterosexual as well as homosexual -- isn't being at war with our flesh?
    Those who are part of the body of Christ are at war with their flesh - and that goes for all of us who are saved. But where does Paul say that means that we are all homosexual? Where does he say that m,eans that he is homosexual?

    In the context, he spoke about ALL sin.

    The Corinthians?? The CORINTHIANS?? "But thanks be to God, who hath given us [all of us who struggle with "the flesh"] the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)
    He was not speaking about ALL Corinthians. Let's see who the audience was:

    1 Cor 1:2
    2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
    NKJV

    He was speaking to those who are saved in the church at Corinth. You argument falls apatrt once more.

    I'm good for all night. You getting tired and running out of fuel?
    Not at all.
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #138

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:40 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    *writing this down in permanent marker*
    May I quote you? It will come in handy soon, I'm sure.
    I hope that you note it well, because it affects (indeed invalidates) every one of your arguments.
    Wondergirl's Avatar
    Wondergirl Posts: 39,354, Reputation: 5431
    Jobs & Parenting Expert
     
    #139

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:42 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Tj3 View Post
    I hope that you note it well, because it affects each and every one of your arguments.
    Yes, of course, Tom. Okie doakie, Tom. *faces Tom and holds up a mirror*
    Tj3's Avatar
    Tj3 Posts: 3,028, Reputation: 112
    Ultra Member
     
    #140

    Feb 14, 2009, 09:51 PM
    Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
    Yes, of course, Tom. Okie doakie, Tom. *faces Tom and holds up a mirror*
    *Wondergirl fails to note that the glass surface of the mirror is pointing at herself*

Not your question? Ask your question View similar questions

 

Question Tools Search this Question
Search this Question:

Advanced Search


Check out some similar questions!

Catholic belief [ 46 Answers ]

Hello, Could you please inform me of Catholic beliefs, and how the differ from Christian belief? Thank You! browneyedfaith:)

What are your feelings, belief and thoughts about Christian unity? [ 38 Answers ]

Today's Gospel (Mk 3:7-12): Jesus and His disciples withdrew to the lakeside and a large crowd from Galilee followed Him. A great number of people also came from Judea, Jerusalem, Idumea, Transjordan and from the region of Tyre and Sidon, for they had heard of all that He was doing. Because of the...

Catholic Belief [ 5 Answers ]

Hello, I am new to this site, but I have had something bothering me, and I am trying to find some answers... We had a Chathlic Gentlemen to visit us the other day, and my niece goes with him and he called her his... he said that is what the Catholics believed and his children are Bastards......

Christians belief [ 5 Answers ]

What do christians believe about jesus?

Belief-O-Matic [ 5 Answers ]

I had originally posted this under another thread, but NeedKarma suggested it could be its own thread, so here it is! I found a fun quiz online called Belief-O-Matic. You answer 20 questions and depending on your answers, your results tell you which religious beliefs you are most in agreement with....


View more questions Search