[Tj3]

The windows of your mind have been painted shut too?????

See what I mean about how some folk go personal when one dares disagree with them?

All you have to do is scrape together some CREDIBLE evidence for your claim.

[Wondergirl]

Nice try, but we all know who those are who turn nasty when anyone dares disagree with them.

I'm hoping you won't start again either.

Now, how about that supposed evidence of Paul being a homosexual? Have you come up with anything concrete, or is that list which have absolutely nothing in it in that regard all that you can scrape together?

I can't do any better than Paul's own words and writings. Every item on the list can be referenced to his epistles.

[Tj3]

I'm hoping you won't start again either.

Heh heh... I know that you hope that I won't start disagreeing with you again, but I cannot do otherwise when you make false and unsubstantiated claims suggesting Paul was homosexual.

I can't do any better than Paul's own words and writings. Every item on the list can be referenced to his epistles.

Then you concede that you have nothing credible to suggest that he was homosexual.

[Wondergirl]

Then you concede that you have nothing credible to suggest that he was homosexual.

Only what Paul himself has written. If that doesn't work for you, oh well.

[Tj3]

Only what Paul himself has written. If that doesn't work for you, oh well.

Paul's writings are clear - He spoke very clearly about the sinfulness of homosexuality.

1 Cor 6:9-11
9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
NKJV

That works for me. It seems to be you that has the problem with that.

BTW, did you miss the fact that Paul was married? I noticed that you failed to acknowledge that.

[Wondergirl]

Again --

Nice try, but we all know who those are who turn nasty when anyone dares disagree with them.

I'm hoping you won't start again either.

[Tj3]

Again --


I'm hoping you won't start again either.

Like I said before, I know that you hope that I won't start disagreeing with you again, but I cannot do otherwise when you make false and unsubstantiated claims suggesting Paul was homosexual.

Just try to control your reactions.

[Wondergirl]

Paul's writings are clear - He spoke very clearly about the sinfulness of homosexuality.

He hated what he was.

How many homosexuals are married? Why do they marry?

[Tj3]

He hated what he was.

Where does he say that? The closest that I see to that is where he says that he hates what he does when he slips in the war against the flesh:

Rom 7:14-25
14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God--through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.
NKJV

BTW, please note the context - Paul sattes that this is not specific to ANY sin, but a general discussion regarding the effects of sin:

Rom 7:8-12
8 But sin, taking opportunity by the commandment, produced in me all manner of evil desire. For apart from the law sin was dead. 9 I was alive once without the law, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 And the commandment, which was to bring life, I found to bring death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it killed me. 12 Therefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy and just and good.
NKJV

So where does he say that he hates what he is?

Indeed, he said the exact opposite:

2 Tim 1:12
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.
NKJV

So where does he say that he hates what he is?

[Wondergirl]

Where does he say that? The closest that I see to that is where he says that he hates what he does when he slips in the war against the flesh

There you go!

Indeed, he said the exact opposite

He was at the same time both sinner and saint. In his second letter to the Corinthians, he wrote, "But thanks be to God, who hath given us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)

[Tj3]

There you go!

So I take it then that you concede that he did NOT say that he hates what he is, but rather was speaking in generalities about sin (and NOT about homosexuality), in stating that he DOES what he hates.

He was at the same time both sinner and saint. In his second letter to the Corinthians, he wrote, "But thanks be to God, who hath given us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)

This describes all who are saved in Christ and yet live at war with our flesh.

Again, nothing even suggests homosexuality.

Do you have anything else?

[Wondergirl]

See what I mean about how some folk go personal when one dares disagree with them?

Jist havin' a wee bit o' fun wit you.

All you have to do is scrape together some CREDIBLE evidence for your claim.

The epistles aren't credible? Wait'll I tell Akoue and the others!

[Tj3]

The epistles aren't credible? Wait'll I tell Akoue and the others!

Sigh - you like twisting what others say don't you?

The Epistles are credible - it is your argument which isn't because the epistles say absolutely nothing remotely close to what you want them to say.

[Wondergirl]

So I take it then that you concede that he did NOT say that he hates what he is, but rather was speaking in generalities about sin (and NOT about homosexuality), in stating that he DOES what he hates.

hahahahahahahahahaha Funny, Tom. Or Funny Tom. You continue to prove my point and support my argument.

This describes all who are saved in Christ and yet live at war with our flesh.

And being human -- heterosexual as well as homosexual -- isn't being at war with our flesh?

Again, nothing even suggests homosexuality.

The Corinthians?? The CORINTHIANS?? "But thanks be to God, who hath given us [all of us who struggle with "the flesh"] the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)

Do you have anything else?

I'm good for all night. You getting tired and running out of fuel?

[Tj3]

Wondergirl,
Everything you listed he most certainly did say...but you only tell HALF of the story.

This is indeed the issue. What scripture says is true. But it is wrong for someone to take snippets out of context to try to justify an argument which is entirely contrary to what scripture actually says. I remember warnings in various part of the Bible regarding adding to, or removing things from God's word.

[Wondergirl]

This is indeed the issue. What scripture says is true. But it is wrong for someone to take snippets out of context to try to justify an argument which is entirely contrary to what scripture actually says. I remember warnings in various part of the Bible regarding adding to, or removing things from God's word.

*writing this down in permanent marker*
May I quote you? It will come in handy soon, I'm sure.

[Tj3]

hahahahahahahahahaha Funny, Tom. Or Funny Tom. You continue to prove my point and support my argument.

Really? You claimed scripture said one thing, and when we read it, it says something much different - exactly how does that prove your point?

And being human -- heterosexual as well as homosexual -- isn't being at war with our flesh?

Those who are part of the body of Christ are at war with their flesh - and that goes for all of us who are saved. But where does Paul say that means that we are all homosexual? Where does he say that m,eans that he is homosexual?

In the context, he spoke about ALL sin.

The Corinthians?? The CORINTHIANS?? "But thanks be to God, who hath given us [all of us who struggle with "the flesh"] the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (2 Cor. 2:14)

He was not speaking about ALL Corinthians. Let's see who the audience was:

1 Cor 1:2
2 To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all who in every place call on the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
NKJV

He was speaking to those who are saved in the church at Corinth. You argument falls apatrt once more.

I'm good for all night. You getting tired and running out of fuel?

Not at all.

[Tj3]

*writing this down in permanent marker*
May I quote you? It will come in handy soon, I'm sure.

I hope that you note it well, because it affects (indeed invalidates) every one of your arguments.

[Wondergirl]

I hope that you note it well, because it affects each and every one of your arguments.

Yes, of course, Tom. Okie doakie, Tom. *faces Tom and holds up a mirror*

[Tj3]

Yes, of course, Tom. Okie doakie, Tom. *faces Tom and holds up a mirror*

*Wondergirl fails to note that the glass surface of the mirror is pointing at herself*