[450donn]

Really off topic here, but when was anything that the government handed out FREE?
If a person really wants an education it can be done. My oldest daughter went to school full time while holding down a part time job to pay for the school. Was it an ivy league college? Nope. Two years at Community college, followed by her bachelors from another school and now at 38 with two kids she is enrolled in a masters program from a well respected university. Not one cent from mom and dad. Does she have to work hard? You bet, but she has done it all on her own. NO HANDOUTS FROM MR OBAMA EITHER!

[Wondergirl]

NO HANDOUTS

The handouts would have been from Bush and his predecessors, not Obama.

My younger son went to college out of high school, used his savings and also took out four govt loans which he is now paying back thanks to the job his college degree got for him.

[Wondergirl]

Really off topic here, but when was anything that the government handed out FREE?
If a person really wants an education it can be done. My oldest daughter went to school full time while holding down a part time job to pay for the school. Was it an ivy league college? Nope. Two years at Community college, followed by her bachelors from another school and now at 38 with two kids she is enrolled in a masters program from a well respected university. Not one cent from mom and dad. Does she have to work hard? You bet, but she has done it all on her own. NO HANDOUTS FROM MR OBAMA EITHER!

Apparently, it won't be a handout. From Obama's web site --

"Make college affordable to all Americans:

Obama and Biden will create a new American Opportunity Tax Credit worth $4,000 in exchange for community service. It will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students."

[excon]

Two years at Community college.... NO HANDOUTS FROM MR OBAMA EITHER!

Hello again, 450,

Then who DID your daughter get her handout from? Your state government? Your city? Do you NOT understand what a "community college" is? I suppose you don't.

You probably think your toothpaste is safe because it was made by a good old American company. But, you'd be wrong about that too. It's safe because some stinkin liberal passed a law to GUARANTEE that it's safe!

But, I digress.

excon

[George_1950]

You probably think your toothpaste is safe because it was made by a good old American company. But, you'd be wrong about that too. It's safe because some stinkin liberal passed a law to GUARANTEE that it's safe!! ....

excon

Ah, yes, liberals: and what law would that be? What department of your sacred regulators looks after toothpaste? They are much more interested in what we think, by the way.

[excon]

What department of your sacred regulators looks after toothpaste?

Hello again, George:

They're from a little known bureaucracy called the Food and Drug Administration. You probably never heard of 'em.

Damn Democrats!

excon

[450donn]

Koolaid be dammed excon you really are funny. She paid for every credit hour she earned out of her own pocket.
Some people might call them junior colleges because they do not offer a four year degree. But they also do not offer courses in binge drinking, rape, or any other nonsense that has nothing to do with an education and everything to do with keeping tenured professors who do little more than teach one class a semester and drag down hugh sums of money employed.
Why is it you find it hard to fathom that some people have common sense and do not want government in their pockets stealing the money they earn?

[excon]

Hello again, 450:

Please try to stay focused... I wasn't talking about their CURRICULUM and neither were you. Curriculum is NOT the subject of this thread. This thread is about government subsided education. Toward that end, I was addressing my remarks about how community colleges are FUNDED.

They're HANDED money BY the government to subsidize education... You seem to really HATE that Obama wants to give away your tax money to subsidize education, but your daughter TAKES tax money to subsidize HER education. Yet, you somehow seem to think it's different. You even BOAST that she doesn't take government money.

Well, it's NOT different - not even close.

I ask you again, do you understand community colleges? I don't think you do.

excon

[George_1950]

Hello again, George:

They're from a little known bureaucracy called the Food and Drug Administration. You probably never heard of 'em.

Damn Democrats!

excon

Sounds like a damn Democrat: toothpaste is a food and/or drug.

[450donn]

Deleted

[450donn]

You know excon, if you would quit dipping into that koolaid that you so proudly claim to have not drank, you would understand my point.
Of course I know that colleges are partially supported by my tax dollars. Even though you may think so I am not an idiot. What Mr savior to all is wanting is so far beyond that it is not even funny. His proposals like all others put forth by the socialist left is to take away all incentive to work and instead turn us into a bunch of mind numbed robots AKA communist Russia. Is that what you want for our country? A country founded on the principal "if you work hard, you can rise above your current social and economic status and become anything you set your mind to".

[Wondergirl]

What Mr savior to all is wanting is so far beyond that it is not even funny. His proposals like all others put forth by the socialist left is to take away all incentive to work and instead turn us into a bunch of mind numbed robots AKA communist Russia.

Ummmm, please read up on that a little more. Work and repayment are part of his plan.

[450donn]

WG, isn't that what is already available in the form of student loans? Many of which are never paid back by people making large incomes but simply do not or quit paying the loans and the government, our same government who now wants trillions of dollars never goes after?

[Wondergirl]

WG, isn't that what is already available in the form of student loans? Many of which are never paid back by people making large incomes but simply do not or quit paying the loans and the government, our same government who now wants trillions of dollars never goes after?

Do you have stats on how many student loans are defaulted on and how many are paid?

I don't understand your point in the "our same government" part of the sentence.

[450donn]

In a press release, Secretary Spellings announced that the FY 2006 national cohort default rate is 5.2 percent. The Department also released a summary of the FY 2006 official cohort default rates by state, by institution type, and a graph showing the trend in national default rates. A briefing on the national default rates was provided with the announcement of the FY 2006 rates.

Give a "free" education to the masses and I would be willing to bet the rate would be closer to 30%
If people who cannot afford to buy a house today were given an education what makes you think they could or would repay student loans? Or more aptly, what sorts of jobs would all these "liberal arts" graduates get? Flipping burgers at micky dees for 8.50 an hour.

[Wondergirl]

In a press release, Secretary Spellings announced that the FY 2006 national cohort default rate is 5.2 percent. The Department also released a summary of the FY 2006 official cohort default rates by state, by institution type, and a graph showing the trend in national default rates. A briefing on the national default rates was provided with the announcement of the FY 2006 rates.

Give a "free" education to the masses and I would be willing to bet the rate would be closer to 30%
If people who cannot afford to buy a house today were given an education what makes you think they could or would repay student loans? Or more aptly, what sorts of jobs would all these "liberal arts" graduates get? Flipping burgers at micky dees for 8.50 an hour.

Wow! McDonald's pays over $8 an hour?? I should quit my low-paying tax-supported public library job that I've had for 24 years and get onto McD's management team.

But Obama has not promised anything free to anyone.

[George_1950]

But Obama has not promised anything free to anyone.

Really! So what do you call this? "The House of Representatives approved an $819 billion economic stimulus package Wednesday, dealing the new Obama administration a legislative victory...." http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009...stimulus-plan/
And this: Wed. Feb. 13, 2008
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday signed a multibillion-dollar economic rescue package on Wednesday that means $300 to $1,200 rebates for many American households. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23143814/

[Wondergirl]

Really! So what do you call this? "The House of Representatives approved an $819 billion economic stimulus package Wednesday, dealing the new Obama administration a legislative victory...." House Passes $819B Stimulus Package - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com
and this: Wed., Feb. 13, 2008
WASHINGTON - President Bush on Wednesday signed a multibillion-dollar economic rescue package on Wednesday that means $300 to $1,200 rebates for many American households. http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23143814/

Like the article says (as per Obama), it's an investment that will produce returns, and is not a gift. Plus there will be checks and balances this time, not like the handout Bush gave, the handout the banks have stuffed into their vaults, the handout no one is benefitting from.

[inthebox]

Create the American Opportunity Tax Credit: Obama and Biden will make college affordable for all Americans by creating a new American Opportunity Tax Credit. This universal and fully refundable credit will ensure that the first $4,000 of a college education is completely free for most Americans, and will cover two-thirds the cost of tuition at the average public college or university and make community college tuition completely free for most students. Recipients of the credit will be required to conduct 100 hours of community service

My only question is what exactly 100 hours of "community service?"


Is it in ACORN?

Is it faith based?


------------------------

There is already a needs based program via the late senator Pell.

Also there is the "hope" credit.

There is also military service - don't forget that one.


---------------------------------------------


List of colleges and universities in the United States by endowment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Why don't they suggest that the colleges set aside a certain percentage of their endowment toward reducing tuition? Why should the taxpayor [ that pays for everything the politicians promise ] pay for everything?

Harvard charges about 31 k per year yet they have a 34 billion dollar endowment.

How are the academic big wigs any different than the wallstreet tycoons or auto execs?



G&P

[Wondergirl]

My only question is what exactly 100 hours of "community service?"

Probably similar to what I supervise -- unpaid volunteer work. I also supervise unpaid work by court-ordered offenders (30-275 hrs.). They wash adult and children's library shelves (i.e. wash each shelf after moving the books onto a cart, dry the shelf, return the books to the shelf in the correct order), damp-wipe rotating paperback racks, damp-wipe the magazine shelves, clean interior glass, clean gunk and adhesives off children's dept. windows and glass walls, wash bathroom walls and stalls walls and doors, pick up trash and dumped cigarette butts off the library parking lot and property, keep the outdoor drains free of debris, shovel snow, keep the walkways and handicapped parking spaces free of snow and ice, separate and dump paper recyclables from trash, process books and other library materials, polish the bronze plaques throughout the library, clean each leaf on all our silk and live plants (they get very dusty from all the patron comings and goings), check the inventory list for each book in the library, clean all the toys in the children's dept. clean the thousands of DVDs and music CDs and audio (book) CDs, cut down cardboard boxes for recycling, clean all public-use and staff computer screens and mice and desktops and furniture, clean with Murphy's soap all library furniture wood (oak), clean all interior stairwells both public and "hidden" (used during tornado warnings, etc.), tie up the oldest magazines that have been withdrawn, haul withdrawn because outdated or unread-for-five-years books to the Dumpster... I'm sure there's more...

I have a five-page checklist of work that must be done daily, weekly, monthly, and occasionally.