[arcura]

Maggie 3,
That is interesting.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it.
But as you know from my precious posts on this I believe that there is an eternal heavenly Kingdom of God and a temporal Kingdom of God on this planet.
Also that they are spiritually connected.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[sndbay]

sndbay,
At the time Jesus said that the Kingdom could not be observed, it could not be seen.
BUT....
After he established His Church on earth it could be and is observable with priests and bishops world wide.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

Fred, First let me say it is nice to hear from you directly..
Christ was raised to heaven, and the Holy Spirit was to come ( John 16:7-14 ) So the presence of God is always with us through the Holy Spirit.

Now if you read the scripture in Ephesians, we are not strangers or foreigners to the knowledge of Christ, because we have fellowship with the saints known within the house of God. And this fellowship was built upon the foundation of the apostles, with Christ being the corner stone. That is why Christ is the Rock. Within this fellowship known within God's house gathering unto the Lord, we grow into a holy temple that is constructed for an habitation of God = "The Holy Spirit"

Eph 2:19 Therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner [stone]; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

We understand that where two or more are gathered together the Lord is with us.."The Holy Spirit"
John the Baptists said it well, John 1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not;
He is saying one standeth among you who you do not see by sight. This is faith... we are to believe.

The Holy Spirit was with Christ when he walked the earth. The Holy Spirit is with us in Newness of Life/Baptism..

Can our minds be deceived from the simplicity of Christ? I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.(Jhn 14:6)
For we walk by faith, not by sight ( 2 Cr 5:7)

[arcura]

sndbay,
Thanks, I agree with some of what you said...
But...
It is clear that Jesus was talking to Peter when He called Simon "Peter" the rock on which Jesus would build his assembly (Church) and Jesus gave Peter the keys to His kingdom.
It had a spiritual connection for Jesus told Peter that what he loosed on earth would be loosed in heaven and what was bound on earth would be bound in heaven.
There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus is the corner stone of The Church He built on the Rock of Peter.
Thus Jesus along with the Holy Spirit are always with that Church.
It is Jesus Christ's bride on earth.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[JoeT777]

Maggie, sndbay, et al:

Joe this is the way I see The Kingdom of God. When Jesus came and died on the cross He made way for the Holy Spirit, that activates the creative word and relates, it that which is created. He inspired the Scriptures and empowers God's people. He takes the things of Jesus and brings them to our remembrance. "John 16:8 tells us that He convicts the world "of sin, and righteousness, and of judgment." All three persons of the Godhead are eternal and has existed forever. Always the Father loved the Son and the Son loved and served the Father. From that relationship the Spirit of God {Holy Spirit] came into being. They all three have existed from before there was anything that could begin, three distinct Persons all functioning as one. They all work together to bring about the Kingdom od God. The Father the Creator the first the cause of everything. Primary thought of what has been and will be created.

I appreciate the hard work this response reflects, But, I don’t see how a discussion on the Trinity is relevant to the ‘Kingdom.’ If the next paragraph was to make the connection, I missed it.

The Son the expression of God, the "only begotten" of the Father. read John 14:9 The Son of God is our redeemer and agent of our creation. The Holy Spirit who brings us all truth to us and activates the creative word. I am telling you this because you need to understand and know the beginning before you can understand the Kingdom of God, and how to get there. At Jesus baptism the Father spoke from heaven, the Son was fulfilling all righteousness and the Spirit descended upon the Son like a dove. Matthew 3:16. All three persons of the Trinity were present. We will understand the Trinity more clearly some day. The Godhead work together they are all One but three persons doing their work for the Kingdom. We must be borne again of the spirit to see the Kingdom of God. John 3:3. Our first birth was our human birth. The second birth was when we received Jesus to cleanse from our sin and making Him the Lord of our life. This enables us individual to be re-created and joined with God's Spirit the Holy Spirit.

I believe in Christ, the incarnate Word, who is the Second person of the Trinity. He doesn’t bring truth, rather He IS Truth.

I realize I need to know the beginning of the Kingdom of God, but you haven’t made the argument here. I agree that baptism is entrance into the Kingdom. When Christ was baptized would he not have entered the Kingdom. Then wasn’t the Kingdom on earth when Christ walked the earth? When did it leave? Why did the Apostles continue to teach about the Kingdom after his death if the Kingdom ascended to heaven? If the Kingdom ascended into heaven then why in the end times are we told that, “The kingdom of this world is become our Lord's and his Christ's, and he shall reign for ever and ever. Amen.” Apoc 11:15 If this Kingdom presented to God is OF THE WORLD at the end of time, would we not expect to see it today.

This enable us to have the spiritual vision necessary to see and enter the Kingdom of God. When we are born again we can see God and be part of it, But Gods Kingdom is only for spiritual beings. Paul said "The natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to Him: nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Cor.2:4. So access to this kingdom is gained only though the new birth by the Spirit of God. The Kingdom of God is eternal. It is a place where all Christians ultimately will dwell. At this time it is an invisible Kingdom in our midst. Wherever there are those who honor the King, and wherever the Spirit of the King is, there is the Kingdom God. The Kingdom of God is within us, and that gives us His power to His work and overcome satan in our life. There is a heaven we will go to when our work is finish where we will have new bodies we will have total communication and fellowship " He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be with them and be their God. And God will wipe away ever tear from their eyes there shall be no more death, nor sorrow nor crying; and there shall be no more pain, for the former things have all passed away." Rev21:3-4

The Kingdom of God is both spiritual as well as earthly. If we are born again in the vein of Nicodemus we are being baptized, at this time we enter into the Kingdom, “unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost [baptism], he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”

What of the Kingdom of God in the Old Testament? Does it still exist in the form of Jewish nation? Then is there a Kingdom of God for the Jews, and a Kingdom of God that belongs to Christ and a Kingdom of Heaven? Now we’re up to three kingdoms.

JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT777,
That is an interesting thought that The Jews may have a separate Kingdom of God.
Right now I think not.
But there are theologians who believe that the Jews have a separate salvation that do Christians.
In that case there MAY be a third Kingdom of God just for them.
It is a question that now I must ponder on more.
Thanks,
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[arcura]

JoeT777
Now THAT is an interesting thought, that there may be three Kingdoms of God including one for the Jews.
Personally I don't think that there is one for them separately.
I think that their Kingdom was transformed to that of Christ the King.
Some theologians believe that the Jews have a separate salvation than that of Christians.
In that case perhaps there MAY be a third Kingdom of God for them.
It is a question for me now to ponder more about.

[sndbay]

Different ways to heaven and Christ are deceptions! Opah talks of this type of deception in what she believes. It is wrong!

Remember what Paul feared:( 2 Cr 5:7)
With prayer and faith, lovingly we remain in Christ' strength and can not be deceived. And we avoid what Paul spoke of in fear ---> 2 Cr 11:2-3 For I am jealous over you with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you to one husband, that I may present you as a chaste virgin to Christ. But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Acknowledge the simplicity of Christ being in 1. His voice (Jhn 10:27); 2. I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.(Jhn 14:6); 3. For we walk by faith, not by sight

Otherwise you are trying to serve two masters which can not be done.. Matthew 6:24; Luke16:13

The Rock is Christ, any other would be the church doing as Paul feared...
Not being as a virgin to the wedding of Christ..

Looking in the mist of another is a trespass against Christ, and Him being the groom to the bride.

And the Church is married to Christ .. Right?

[sndbay]

sndbay,

There is no doubt in my mind that Jesus is the corner stone of The Church He built on the Rock of Peter.

Thus Jesus along with the Holy Spirit are always with that Church.

It is Jesus Christ's bride on earth.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

As the bride of Christ the church can not commit adualtary... It can not service two masters or two husbands.
Peter himself is shown to say in scripture: I am a man also!

Acts 10:25-26 And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man.

And we must remember that Deu 31 says that the Song of Moses was written to bear witness against what would be taught that is false.. Deu 32 we find the Song of Moses...

[arcura]

sndbay,
I told you what I believe and I continue to stand by that.
It is clear that Jesus was talking to and about Peter being The Rock.
Thanks anyway,
Fred

[Maggie 3]

Joe I will try to say this in away you can understand. You can
not separate the trinity, the Godhead or the kingdon of God. Let me say this, I am a
wife, mother and teacher, I just told you what I am. This is how I see the Kingdom of God. God is three persons in one, and God being God does not tell us every little
detail but He does teaches us what we need to know if we keep seeking, and are born again to receive it. When you enter the Kingdon of God you need the Father, Son
and Holy Spirit. This is what the kingdom of God is. When Jesus died on the cross
His physical body died, His spirit did not die. He rose from the dead in a spiritual
body that His followers could recognize. God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit can not be killed off or separated. You can not change God's ways or add to or take away, being a
child of God is being obedient then we can live in the Kingdom of God .It is sin that
keeps us separated from God. Joe have you been born again? If not the spirit cannot teach you His ways , Our eyes are open when we are born again and then we are able to see the truth.

Let me know if this helps you.

Maggie 3

[arcura]

Maggie 3,
Good post of sorts.
Jesus rose with a glorified body like we will have in heaven.
Jesus could and did eat, He could be touched. He could also pass though locked doors and appear many miles away almost instantly.
That is what His glorified body could do.
I think that Joe was born again of spirit and water as the bible says.
Yes the Godhead is three persons in one and inseparable. I think Joe knows that.
Another way of trying to understand the trinity is the fact that we all are a trinity of body, mind and spirit which each has a different task but they all work together.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Maggie 3]

Thanks Fred, you are right about Jesus and His glorified body, want it be great when we have ours. We will keep on working for the Lord until He comes. The more I learn of Him
The joy grows. Ever so ofen I tell my husband, I love the lord so much I can hardly stand it, and that the way it goes with me!

Maggie 3

[JoeT777]

Joe I will try to say this in away you can understand. You can
not separate the trinity, the Godhead or the kingdon of God. Let me say this, I am a
wife, mother and teacher, I just told you what I am. This is how I see the Kingdom of God. God is three persons in one, and God being God does not tell us every little
detail but He does teaches us what we need to know if we keep seeking, and are born again to receive it. When you enter the Kingdon of God you need the Father, Son
and Holy Spirit. This is what the kingdom of God is. When Jesus died on the cross
His physical body died, His spirit did not die. He rose from the dead in a spiritual
body that His followers could recognize. God, Jesus or the Holy Spirit can not be killed off or separated. You can not change God's ways or add to or take away, being a
child of God is being obedient then we can live in the Kingdom of God .It is sin that
keeps us separated from God. Joe have you been born again? If not the spirit cannot teach you His ways , Our eyes are open when we are the Real Presence of Christ making us able to see the truth.

Let me know if this helps you.

Maggie 3

Yes, thank you for asking. I am “born again” through baptism where, as an infant, I received one of many graces of faith. In cooperation with this grace, and combined with my life's experience, it has taught me perseverance in fear and trembling of Chist's promise of redemptions. (Cf. Phil 2:12) Have you received the real presence of Christ? Its only here do we come to live in Christ. (Cf John 6:55-59) Without the real presence of Christ the spirit cannot teach you His ways, our eyes are open when we are born again and then we are able to see the truth.

JoeT

[arcura]

Joe,
Very good answer.
In my case I have often partaken of the real body and blood of Christ.
It gives me great joy and thankfulness that Jesus has provided that way to become one with Him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Maggie 3]

Thank you Joe and Fred. When we experience the love and joy
Of the Lord it strengthens us to overcome our trials in life. We can understand what
Kept the Lord and His followers going, though all the pain and suffering they endured.
There is power and strength in His love and joy . This is why in Matthew 22:36-40
"Teacher, which is the greatest Commandement In the law ? "
Jesus said to them, " you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind." " This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like it: " you shall love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on these 2 commandments." Love always brings joy. This sounds like the Kingdom of God to me.

Maggie 3

[arcura]

Maggie 3,
Yes I do believe that love is greatly in all Kingdoms of God on heaven and earth.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[JoeT777]

Thank you Joe and Fred. When we experience the love and joy
of the Lord it strengthens us to overcome our trials in life. We can understand what
kept the Lord and His followers going, though all the pain and suffering they endured.
There is power and strength in His love and joy . This is why in Matthew 22:36-40
"Teacher, which is the greatest Commandement In the law ? "
Jesus said to them, " you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul and with all your mind." " This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like it: " you shall love your neighbor as yourself. All the law and the prophets hang on these 2 commandments." Love always brings joy. This sounds like the Kingdom of God to me.

Maggie 3

Thanks for your kind words Maggie. Humm, you did know I’m Catholic? But, you can’t take’m back now; it’s too late.

My comments here should have reflected that, and should explain why I believe Christ’s Kingdom is here on earth. We call it the Catholic Church.

JoeT

[arcura]

JoeT777,
Yes, from your many posts it could, should, have been obvious.
The same for me.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Maggie 3]

I thought you were, Joe and Fred. I go to a spirit filled,
Non-denominational church and have for over 30 years and have learned so much.
My husband was raised in the catholic church and we have friends that attend there.
I know the Lord looks at the heart and not the name of a church. We all need
Each other to learn, no one knows it all, but God does. "Trust in the Lord with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding" Pro.3-5 As we trust in God with all our heart, we will be able to keep on working in health and happiness for long years
To come. I am 77 years young and on pastoral care at our church. My husband will be
83 in April and is a chaplain at our hospital here in town. Our joy in life is serving
The Lord. " In Him we live, move, and have our being". Acts17-28
"I can do all things though Christ which strengthenenth me." Phil 4-13
"Thou shalt guide me with Thy counsel, and afterward receive me to Glory" PS. 73-24
We are working for the glory of the Lord, in the Kingdom of God. Bless you

Maggie 3

[arcura]

Maggie 3,
Good for you. I'm happy for you and your husband.
I'll be 77 in February and I also serve the Lord as best I can.
Peace and kindness,
Fred