[Tj3]

I agree but want to point out that there are at least two schools of thought on original sin.
As far as baptizing infants the Bible does say repent and be baptized and an infant can not repent but that does not mean a baby is not to be baptized. In Acts it said the whole household was baptized. I still believe that even if you were baptized as an infant you should still be baptized when you are an adult.

Babies can be baptized, but since it does not save adults, it will not save babies. It is, however, a means of dedicating a child, because the term, "baptized" also means to be identified with, and by baptizing an infant, you are identifying that child with the salvation that is in Christ, and dedicating yourself to bring up the child in the truth of scripture, and in the knowledge of the gospel. The Baby will then, in is hoped, grow up to be a m,an or woman of God who will be saved by receiving Christ as save and then desire to participate in believer's baptism as an adult.

[arcura]

NOhelp4U.
Yes I believe an infant should be baptized.
I also believe what the Bible says in several ways that one of the things needed for salvation IS Baptism.
Jesus commanded it to be done.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[N0help4u]

If baptism is needed for salvation what about the thief on the cross?
The Bible never says infant baptism is a requirement an infant can not make a decision to be saved. The Bible says repent and be baptized in that order. I don't think there is anything wrong with infant baptism but that it is not essential,

[De Maria]

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

[arcura]

N0help4u,
That was Jesus doing.
Jesus was the judge in that case.
With God all things are possible.
That does NOT change the fact that Jesus commanded baptisms to be done.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[arcura]

De Maria,
Excellent.
Thanks for posting that.
Fred

[Tj3]

If baptism is needed for salvation what about the thief on the cross?

A good question for which you will never get a good answer.

[Tj3]

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

It is important to read this in context. Let's look at the passage in context

1 Peter 3:18-22
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water. 21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
NKJV

We see three things discussed here:

1) Noah's Ark and its role in saving people through the flood
2) Water baptism
3) The gospel and the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

This passage relates these three items by showing how they relate. First Peter speaks the death of Christ on the cross, setting the focus for the passage. As a result of this passage, we know that the focus of the verses that follow are regarding the death of Christ on the cross for our sins.

This death for our sins is then compared, to the flood, with the flood discussed as a symbolic “type” or comparison to salvation which come through the cross of Christ. Then we are told that there is an anti-type, baptism. I often hear the argument that an “anti-type” is the opposite of a type, or as one person recently said, an anti-type being the opposite of a type is “reality”. Unfortunately that argument is not “reality” because in Greek and similar languages, “anti-” often does not mean “opposite” as we understand it in English, but rather means a replacement or a contrast. This when we are told about one type, and then we are told that there is an anti-type, what we see here is a contrasting type of the death on the cross.

an·ti·type n.

One that is foreshadowed by or identified with an earlier symbol or type, such as a figure in the New Testament who has a counterpart in the Old Testament.

An opposite or contrasting type.

Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin
Company. All rights reserved.

This understanding also agrees with what Paul said in Romans 6 where he identifies baptism as a “likeness” or symbolic of the death and resurrection on the cross:

Rom 6:3-7
3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin.
NKJV

In discussions with proponents of baptismal regeneration, they will often just read out Romans 6:3 and then stop before you get to the verse which describes baptism as a “likeness” of the death and resurrection of Christ. So we find that Romans 6 and 1 Peter 3 are telling us the same thing – baptism is symbolic.

Now with that in mind, let's look at the verse which is most often quoted by proponents of baptismal regeneration:

1 Peter 3:21
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh,
NKJV

The contrasting types, the ark, which saved Noah and family through the water, and baptism which saves us in the water - as a type. A "type" simply means symbolic, and thus is symbolic of the death and resurrection of Christ through we we are in fact saved.

Now, let's look at the wider context:

1 Peter 3:18
18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit,
NKJV

Salvation came by Christ suffering on the cross for our sins and then we are made alive by the Spirit. Scripture says that there is one baptism, and it is not a baptism that replaces the blood with water, or replaces the spirit with water, but it is the baptism of the Holy Spirit.

Note that by stating that it is water baptism that is essential, what we are in effect being told is that the indwelling of the Holy Spirit is not essential, and that they choose water to replace the baptism of the Holy Spirit. Consider the implications.

1 Peter 3:21
21 There is also an antitype which now saves us--baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, angels and authorities and powers having been made subject to Him.
NKJV

Note that it is water that removes the filth of the flesh, but the water is symbolic of the salvation on the cross. Also note that the substances which cleanses, is the answer of a good conscience towards God. We see a similar reference in Hebrews 9
This passage is very clear regarding the symbolic nature of the various rituals. As pointed out earlier, the reference here to ritual washings is the same word used elsewhere in the New Testament where it is translated as “baptism”.

Heb 9:11-15
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 1 4 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? 15 And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
NKJV

We see confirmation here that it is not the water that cleanses, but the blood of Christ sacrificed on the cross.

[N0help4u]

1 Peter 3:21
The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Yes how can an infant have a good conscience toward God?

[adam7gur]

A good question for which you will never get a good answer.

I have wrote this before .
Baptism saves us from the authourity of the world and its master.So the thief on the cross was already judged by the world and its master.The world's judgement for him was... death!That was not going to change , he was already on the cross, but he could still save his soul because he was still alive.He turned to Jesus and asked for mercy.Jesus paid for his ( the thief's) sins also, and the thief saved his soul.

[arcura]

Adam.
Thanks for that.
It makes good sense.
And it does not change the fact that Jesus ordered is followers to go out into the world and baptize people.
Peace and kindness,
Fred.

[Tj3]

I have wrote this before .
Baptism saves us from the authourity of the world and its master.

It is sin that places under enslavement to sin and the only thing that takes that away is the blood that Jesus shed on the cross:

Rev 1:4-7
Grace to you and peace from Him who is and who was and who is to come, and from the seven Spirits who are before His throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler over the kings of the earth. To Him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, 6 and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.
NKJV

So the thief on the cross was already judged by the world and its master.The world's judgement for him was... death!That was not going to change , he was already on the cross, but he could still save his soul because he was still alive.He turned to Jesus and asked for mercy.Jesus paid for his ( the thief's) sins also, and the thief saved his soul.

So baptism is not essential for salvation.

[arcura]

Don't be mislead.
P Baptism IS one of the things like faith that are needed for salvation.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Don't be mislead.
P Baptism IS one of the things like faith that are needed for salvation.

Where is that in scripture?

[N0help4u]

I don't see it as an essential FOR salvation but as a witness OF your salvation. Like your washing your husbands clothes is not essential FOR his love but it bears witness OF your love for him just like works and faith.

[adam7gur]

Tj3
Baptism is not essential for the salvation of the soul form hell.It is essential for a person to be saved from the world.I am talking about two different kinds of salvation.

[adam7gur]

Fred
Surely... no doubt... it does not change what Jesus instructed !

[Tj3]

Tj3
Baptism is not essential for the salvation of the soul form hell.It is essential for a person to be saved from the world.I am talking about two different kinds of salvation.

There is no concept of salvation from the world in scripture separate from salvation from sin. When we are saved by receiving Christ as Saviour, we receive His righteousness which separates us from the world.

There is nothing in scripture saying that baptism saves us - PERIOD!

1 Cor 1:16-17
17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
NKJV

[adam7gur]

There is no concept of salvation from the world in scripture separate from salvation from sin. When we are saved by receiving Christ as Saviour, we receive His righteousness which separates us from the world.

There is nothing in scripture saying that baptism saves us - PERIOD!

My friend Tj3
But there is a concept of salvation from the world!
Let's think about Noah and his family.They were all saved from the world, but who can tell if they all saved their souls?
I mean those people lived for many years after that , they could have turned away from God if they wanted to.If they did turn away would their souls be saved?But we cannot change the fact that they were saved from the world no matter what !

[Tj3]

My friend Tj3
But there is a concept of salvation from the world!
Let's think about Noah and his family.They were all saved from the world, but who can tell if they all saved their souls?
I mean those people lived for many years after that , they could have turned away from God if they wanted to.If they did turn away would their souls be saved?But we cannot change the fact that they were saved from the world no matter what !

I am not sure how you mean saved from the world, but these people were still subject to all of the same worldly desire, all the same worldly threats. Where does scripture say that they were not?

And further, where does it say that baptism saved Noah and his family? It doesn't. It compares their temporary safety from death to baptism as a comparison, nothing more.

Part of the definition of the word holiness is to be separate - to keep ourselves separate from the world. We cannot be holy and thus separate from the world until or unless we have been saved through faith in Christ.