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dkolinek · Dec 13, 2008, 04:48 PM

I installed a new electric hot water heater and used the galvanized nipples with the part in it to reduce heat loss. Can these be installed backwards or the wrong way? There is a plastic insert in them. I do not have much hot water. We can take one shower and run out of hot water. Any ideas? Thanks.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 13, 2008, 05:44 PM

Installing them either way will not creat loss of hot water, or the amount of hot water. Did you fill the water heater completely with water before turning on power to heater? If not then one of your elements most likely burnt. Are you sure the cold inlet and hot outlet are piped correctly? If reversed, you will get very limited hot water, and then mostly luke warm, then cold. Double check piping. Then test elements. Please let me know what you find.

dkolinek · Dec 13, 2008, 06:19 PM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

installing them either way will not creat loss of hot water, or the amount of hot water. Did you fill the water heater completely with water before turning on power to heater? If not then one of your elements most likely burnt. Are you sure the cold inlet and hot outlet are piped correctly? If reversed, you will get very limited hot water, and then mostly luke warm, then cold. Doulbe check piping. Then test elements. Please let me know what you find.

I filled the heater correctly. I did forget to mention one thing that I read a reply about at this site. My faucet is a single-handle Delta(the farther CCW you turn the hotter), and someone said something about an adjustment on the faucet itself. I am a retired electrician and have installed many hot water heaters. But this one is confusing me. Do you know anything about the adjustment? I get in the shower and it starts fine. But I have to continually turn the handle CCW. I still seem to have hot water but have to turn the handle for that to be accomplished. Sorry.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 15, 2008, 06:14 PM

Are you only having hot water problems at this faucet? Or in the whole house. If only at this one faucet please let me know.

dkolinek · Dec 15, 2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

are you only having hot water problems at this faucet? Or in the whole house. If only at this one faucet please let me know.

Well, I just asked my wife and she is not sure how to answer that question. You have to know our situation. We live in a metal building. We only have the one bath and, of course, a washer and kitchen sink that would be using hot water. We have not really noticed any other area other than the shower. I am retired and I do the washing. It is really hard to be able and tell. I will start checking. All I know is we should have more hot water than we do. By the way, we are noticing the lack of hot water in the shower in the morning so nothing else has been on prior to its use. I just know that with a 30 gal. we should be able to take 2 showers without any trouble. I will start checking and get back. Thanks so much.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 16, 2008, 05:00 PM

May be iffy on the thirty gal. I have a forty gallon gas water heater(much better recovery with gas than electric) and I still run short on hot water if my wife showers right before me. All depend on how long of showers are being taken.

Do you have a restrictive shower head, or do you get enough pressure to blow your hair back. If more than enough pressure, I would recommend intalling a low flow shower head. You will use less water(and hot water) this way, resulting in longer periods of hot water. A good way to test if your hot water heater is functioning correctly is to take a five gallon bucket, put it under the tub spout, or shower head, turn the faucet on as hot as it will go, then see how many times the five gallon bucket fills before water starts to go from hot to warm. On a thirty gallon water heater, you will only get roughly twenty gallons of hot water before it starts cooling, once it starts cooling it will only be another five or so gallons before water starts to get just look warm to cold. I realize you are not taking showers with only the hot on, but this will tell if the water heater is operating correctly. Please try this and let me know what you find.

letmetellu · Dec 16, 2008, 07:13 PM

To me this sounds like a problem concerning the dip tube, if you don't know what it is I will tell you. It is a tube in the cold (right hand) opening of the water heater, it carries the cold water to the bottom of the heater when you are replacing water that you are running out of the hot water faucet. If for some reason this tube in not there, or it is shorter than it should be, or it was melted when doing soldering on the pipes, it will let the cold water enter at the top of the heater and the cold will mix with the hot and soon you will only have warm water and then cold.

Turn on a hot water faucet, while it is running go to the water heater and see if the left pipe is hot and the right side is cold, if that is not the case then you have them backward.

Please let me know if this helped you.

Milo Dolezal · Dec 16, 2008, 07:17 PM

DKolinek: Usually, the plastic inserts inside the nipples are color-marked red and blue. But, whether they are marked or not, one of the nipples has back-flow-preventing device built in. This snorkel-like device prevents hot water from returning back to the heater. This nipple has to be installer right side up and on hot water side. If installed upside down, it will almost certainly inhibit hot water flow to your plumbing fixtures within your house.

dkolinek · Dec 17, 2008, 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by letmetellu

To me this sounds like a problem concerning the dip tube, if you don't know what it is I will tell you. It is a tube in the cold (right hand) opening of the water heater, it carries the cold water to the bottom of the heater when you are replacing water that you are running out of the hot water faucet. If for some reason this tube in not there, or it is shorter than it should be, or it was melted when doing soldering on the pipes, it will let the cold water enter at the top of the heater and the cold will mix with the hot and soon you will only have warm water and then cold.

Turn on a hot water faucet, while it is running go to the water heater and see if the left pipe is hot and the right side is cold, if that is not the case then you have them backward.

Please let me know if this helped you.

Thanks. I will try that.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 17, 2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal

dKolinek: Usually, the plastic inserts inside the nipples are color-marked red and blue. But, whether they are marked or not, one of the nipples has back-flow-preventing device built in. This snorkel-like device prevents hot water from returning back to the heater. This nipple has to be installer right side up and on hot water side. If installed upside down, it will almost certainly inhibit hot water flow to your plumbing fixtures within your house.

What brand water heater do you speak of. The only inserts I've seen are just a rubber flap. They don't actually work as a backflow preventer. I work mostly with AOSmith, never seen an actuall built in backflow preventer on one.

I have seen these nipples in both positions, depending on the manufacturer. They work both ways. Not too many years ago they didn't even exist, and water heaters seemed to work fine then. I know of people that actually just tear of the rubber flap.

As to the dip tube, yes this is a good thing to check, however, the water heater is brand new, so I doubt this is the problem. Sounds to me like the user is getting hot water, just a limited amount. If dip tube was broken, you would get luke warm water from the get go.(unless it were broken half way down or so.)

dkolinek · Dec 17, 2008, 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

What brand water heater do you speak of. The only inserts ive seen are just a rubber flap. They dont actually work as a backflow preventer. I work mostly with AOSmith, never seen an actuall built in backflow preventer on one.

I have seen these nipples in both positions, depending on the manufacturer. They work both ways. Not too many years ago they didnt even exist, and water heaters seemed to work fine then. I know of people that actually just tear of the rubber flap.

As to the dip tube, yes this is a good thing to check, however, the water heater is brand new, so i doubt this is the problem. Sounds to me like the user is getting hot water, just a limited amount. If dip tube was broken, you would get luke warm water from the get go.(unless it were broken half way down or so.)

I checked the heater today to made sure all piping was hooked up correctly. I checked the 2 elments and both are pulling about 12A. Each. I have everything hooked right and I reset the thermostats to @ 120 degrees. I hate to set it up too far, but I'll try that. The heater is a Whirlpool from Lowe's. I have always thought that Whirppool is a pretty good brand. Anyway, I'll let the higher temperature go for a couple of days and see if that helps. The only thing I can think of next is the faucet itself.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 17, 2008, 04:49 PM

120 is the ideal setting. What was it set at before? I wouldn't recommend going any lower than 120. I also wouldn't recommend going much higher. Some are preset at 125, but that would be as far as I would go. If the setting was below 120, this would explain the lack of hot water. Hope your problem is solved. Sorry I didn't mention the thermostat setting earlier. Please do let me know what it was set at from the factory. Take care and have a nice hot shower.

letmetellu · Dec 17, 2008, 07:25 PM

Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal
I work mostly with AOSmith, never seen an actuall built in backflow preventer on one.

The little rubber flaps are all that I see now in any water heater but for a while they did use a nipple with a floating ball in it, when the cold water entered the ball would drop and the water would go around the ball but as the water heated the water would float the ball back to the top of the nipple and actually become a positive check.

I don't think this is the problem in this case.

speedball1 · Dec 18, 2008, 07:51 AM

All excellent answers. Lee nailed it about the dip tube,

If dip tube was broken, you would get luke warm water from the get go.(unless it were broken half way down or so.)

I would check the elements first. Next the thermostats. M y bet's on one of the elements. DK, you can shut the power off and check them with your Ohm meter. Good luck, Tom

dkolinek · Dec 18, 2008, 07:57 AM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

120 is the ideal setting. What was it set at before? I wouldnt recommend going any lower than 120. I also wouldnt recommend going much higher. Some are preset at 125, but that would be as far as i would go. If the setting was below 120, this would explain the lack of hot water. Hope your problem is solved. Sorry i didnt mention the thermostat setting ealier. Please do let me know what it was set at from the factory. Take care and have a nice hot shower.

I'm not sure exacly what it was on but probably about 110 or so. I will work with this and, if we continue having the problem, I may have to go to a larger heater. Our only problem is space. Like I said we live in a metal buiding and had built this living quarters to last about a year and we have enjoyed it so much, it has been 5 years. Anyway, thanks for your help. Merry Christmas to you.

dkolinek · Dec 18, 2008, 08:01 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

All excellent answers. Lee nailed it about the dip tube,
I would check the elements first. Next the thermostats. M y bet's on one of the elements. DK, you can shut the power off and check them with your Ohm meter. Good luck, Tom

I have an amprobe and checked them yesterday. They are pulling about 12 A. each which is about right. The dip tube sounds right but, this being a new heater, I figured it was OK. I guess it could have been damaged in transit or something. I did set the temp. to about 120 degrees and we'll try this. Thanks for your response.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 18, 2008, 04:14 PM

Originally Posted by letmetellu

Originally Posted by Milo Dolezal
I work mostly with AOSmith, never seen an actuall built in backflow preventer on one.

The little rubber flaps are all that I see now in any water heater but for a while they did use a nipple with a floating ball in it, when the cold water entered the ball would drop and the water would go around the ball but as the water heated the water would float the ball back to the top of the nipple and actually become a postive check.

I don't think this is the problem in this case.

This was actually my post, Milo is the one that was talking about the backflow preventer you have just described. Never seen one. Good to know they are out there so I can watch for them. I believe the user will probably be more satified now that he has raised the temp to 120 degrees.

letmetellu · Dec 18, 2008, 06:49 PM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

this was actually my post, Milo is the one that was talking about the backflow preventer you have just described. Never seen one. Good to know they are out there so i can watch for them. I believe the user will probably be more satified now that he has raised the temp to 120 degrees.

I tried to give you a response to this post, (What I said was that I was sorry about my mistake in posting to the wrong person and for you to keep on giving the good answers to the questions from the public.) So forgive me and I will give you a real rating later on, it would not let me at the time I noticed my mistake.

mygirlsdad77 · Dec 19, 2008, 04:44 PM

Thank you, letmetellu. I truly do hope someday they get this system to accept all comments. Thanks again.

dkolinek · Dec 19, 2008, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by mygirlsdad77

Thank you, letmetellu. I truly do hope someday they get this system to accept all comments. Thanks again.

Today, I installed 2 new thermostats in hopes that Saturday morning, we have enough hot water for 2 showers. The only thing left is the dip tube. The elements ohmed out perfect. We'll wait and see. Thanks to everyone for their advise. It helps a novice plumber out considerably. Merry Christmas.