[massplumber2008]

Hi MGD77..

Just wondering why.. Seems to me that as long as he connects into the vent at least 6 inches above flood level rim of the sink it doesn't matter what height he ran the vent as long as it is above the ptrap..? Just wondering?

And can you accept private messages... want to send one to you..?

Thanks... MARK

[mygirlsdad77]

It looks to me as though the vent runs below floodrim. I see the backsplash of the counter, so I assume that the floodrim is at the bottom of the backsplash.


We may be talking about two different things.

Im not referring to tieing in a vent from another fixture. Im talking about the actuall ks vent. (I may be completely wrong here). I believe most codes say that a vent for a fixture cannot run horizontally until it is at least six inches above floodrim level. The way I see the picture, it looks like the vent runs horizontally well before it reaches flood rim of ks. Like I said, I wouldn't worry about it, unless job was being inspected. Like I said, I may be wrong here, may just be my overbearing code.


Yes I do accept private messages. Look forward to hearing from you.

[EPMiller]

EPMILLER...

Speedball is down for a few days, but I wanted to quickly respond to your post on WET VENTING. You said, "Where the drain line for a fixture directly above acts as the vent for a fixture on the floor below". The only way a vent acts as a vent for a fixture on another floor is if you tie the vent from the lower floor into the vent at least 6 inches higher than the flood level rim of the tallest fixture on the higher floor....and then it's not a wet vent, but just a vent.

In fact, if you look at the pictures above and you add a sink from the basement and call this kitchen sink a WET VENT for the basement sink...AND THE VENT FROM THE BASEMENT DOES NOT CONNECT INTO THE KITCHEN SINK VENT AT LEAST 6 INCHES ABOVE THE FLOOD LEVEL RIM OF THE KITCHEN SINK...you will not have a wet vent but a major SIPHON ACTION as the kitchen sink drains past the basement sink and the basement sink is left with NO VENT and therefore basement sink bubbles and water can be siphoned from the trap....a major health issue from a plumber's perspective!!
<snip>
MARK

Massplumber,

Yes, I know the code on that, just reread it the other night for fun. The easiest way to describe what I have seen numerous times (with some variations) is a laundry tub in the basement. Vertical stack up to the kitchen sink or bathroom (not commode) above. That drain comes in on a P-trap into the side of a sanitary tee and then the stack continues up through the wall and out the roof. No separate vent for the lower sink, and often 1-1/2" pipe all the way. I haven't noticed problems with siphoning in this situation, at least until something gets clogged. Now, I know you don't do it this way from new any more, but I've seen it and remodeled around it. The 2" pipe in the original photo brought this to mind.

Maybe you could tell me when code ruled that out. I'd be curious. Don't expect too much input from me for a while, I'm busier than a one-armed paperhanger right now. And I didn't get an email notification (that I saw anyway) of the activity on this thread since my last post.

EPMiller

[FAST PLUMBERMAN]

You could also use a studor vent under your sink!
See if you could eliminate the vent up in the attic!
This would only work if that vent from the second floor, does not vent any other fixtures in the second floor wall!

[iamgrowler]

this looks great. I would offer a little advice to any other onlookers at this sight that see this piping. You had plenty of room to move the vent up to the top of the studs. I would have drilled the studs as high as possible( while still having room for minimal slope). Dont worry, you will be just fine with your install. Just my thoughts on things.

the only reason i point this out is this... now you have a length of horizontal vent below the floodrim of the fixture which it serves. Not really a problem as far as im concerned.

Do make sure you either install stud guards, or measure and mark sheetrock so you dont end up drilling a screw into pipe while sheetrocking. Wish you a speedy project, and have a merry christmas and happy new year.

I agree -- He should have run the vent up as high as possible and used drainage fittings (long sweeps) in the transition from vertical to horizontal when he wrapped around the corner at the end of the stem wall -- Should the drain line ever back up, it will fill the horizontal portion of the vent with solids and render it useless.

Then again, if it had been me, I would have used an AAV and capped off and abandoned the 2" vent.

He could have easily installed the AAV 6" above the weir of the trap and then installed an 8"x8" louvered grill in the back of the sink cabinet for future access to the AAV.

[massplumber2008]

YUP Growler, you and MGD77 are right here! Makes best sense not to offset drain until above rim of sink!

Also note that I mentioned the AAV at post #11... ;)

Thanks guys!

[mygirlsdad77]

I believe the homeowner did best by not installing an aav, in this case. The walls were open, easy to run an actuall vent. Actuall vent is ALWAYS better than aav. I see no need(and read no code) to use long sweeps in vent.(drainage, yes). All in all, I think the homeowner did A OKAY.

[massplumber2008]

MGD... I agree completely on the long sweeps... only in certain circumstances on waste only. What would point be on vents?

And I think homeowner did great, too... :)

[mygirlsdad77]

Exactly right mass. I very seldom even run into circumstances that require long sweeps on drainage. And never on vents, that would be a waste of a fitting.

[iamgrowler]

Exactly right mass. I very seldom even run into circumstances that require long sweeps on drainage. and never on vents, that would be a waste of a fitting.

What about when you are flat venting below the floor (well below the flood rim of the fixture) when roughing in a WC, shower, floor drain or bathtub?

Wouldn't you use a long sweep when transitioning from horizontal to vertical?

If you would, then the same rules would apply in this scenario if the vent is running horizontally below the flood rim of the fixture.

>shrugs<

Then again, I am not entirely sure which code prevails in your neck of the woods; The above pertains exclusively to the UPC.

[speedball1]

Yes, I know the code on that, just reread it the other night for fun. The easiest way to describe what I have seen numerous times (with some variations) is a laundry tub in the basement. Vertical stack up to the kitchen sink or bathroom (not commode) above. That drain comes in on a P-trap into the side of a sanitary tee and then the stack continues up through the wall and out the roof. No separate vent for the lower sink, and often 1-1/2" pipe all the way. I haven't noticed problems with siphoning in this situation, at least until something gets clogged. Now, I know you don't do it this way from new any more, but I've seen it and remodeled around it. The 2" pipe in the original photo brought this to mind.

Wet venting a washer station off a kitchen sink drain is just asking for problems and would never pass inspection in my area. How we do it is to connect the washer to the kitchen drain line and run a separate vent on the washer. This may be revented back to the kitchen vent 6 inches above the sinks flood rim. Letmetellu, Is this really the way they plumb in Texas? Regards, Tom

[mygirlsdad77]

What about when you are flat venting below the floor (well below the flood rim of the fixture) when roughing in a WC, shower, floor drain or bathtub?

Wouldn't you use a long sweep when transitioning from horizontal to vertical?

If you would, then the same rules would apply in this scenario if the vent is running horizontally below the flood rim of the fixture.

>shrugs<

Then again, I am not entirely sure which code prevails in your neck of the woods; The above pertains exclusively to the UPC.

So, if you have to use a long sweep for venting in this instance, does that mean you use long sweeps for all drainage also. I am also under upc(very overkill code, but I do abide by it, because I have to. Although my state has made amendments that make the code much more practical). Long story short. There is no need to use long sweeps on venting.

Do you think an aav would be better than an actuall vent with short 90's?

I do really appreciate you input. Its been awhile since I read my code book. Maybe I need to look a little closer.

[iamgrowler]

So, if you have to use a long sweep for venting in this instance, does that mean you use long sweeps for all drainage also

.

Of course not.

There are a number of transitions in waste piping where medium sweeps are allowable.

I am also under upc(very overkill code, but I do abide by it, because I have to. Although my state has made amendments that make the code much more practical). Long story short. There is no need to use long sweeps on venting.

>shrugs<

Amendments to the adopted code are a dime a dozen.

Knowing when the adoptions are mechanically unsound is an altogether different proposition; Remember.. . You still have to warranty your work.

Do you think an aav would be better than an actuall vent with short 90's?

In this particular application, I do, actually.

VTR's in islands and stem walls are invariably plumbed below the flood rim of the fixture being served -- Which can lead to my earlier scenario -- The drain backs up with solids and also fills the horizontal portion of the vent.

When the clog is finally cleared, the horizontal portion of the vent, which hasn't been graded correctly or plumbed with drainage fittings retains the solids.

An AAV, otoh, provides you with an opening to remove the accumulated debris.

I do really appreciate you input. Its been awhile since I read my code book. Maybe I need to look a little closer.

>shrugs<

My secondary source of income is derived from teaching 'Code Compliance' courses.

Your call, but the Teacher in me would suggest you brush up on your knowledge of the latest revisions of the Code adopted by your local Authority.

Seriously -- I'm not trying to bust your gonads here, but your apathy is bound to catch up with you (financially) in ways you will find very difficult to pass onto your clients.

Just my two pence.

[speedball1]

Thank God we don't live under a code that forces us to use a single vent on every fixture. Growler! There's a rumor going around that UPC will now allow wet vents. Good thinking! The bext thing you know they will even allow high loops on dishwashers. Cheers, Tom