[jcdogluv]

OK so my family has a shih tzu/bishon that's almost 1 year old. It has been really hard for me to fully train him because I can't have him at my apt so he lives at my parents house. And I teach him all the tricks and such when I'm back at the house. But he finally learned to scratch the back door when he needs to go outside. Initially it was a big relief. BUT.. then he fell in love with our backyard and scratches the door ALL the time whether he really has to pee/poop or not. He pees/poops at random times. And sometimes when I try to ignore him, it turns out that he actually has to pee/poop and then does it inside the house.

one thing I noticed though is that my parents would feed him a tiny meal once in the morning and then a normal one at around 3 in the afternoon... but he never eats the food at 3.. so my parents just leave it out and he eats it whenever he feels like it. And any left over food and water gets taken up at 7. should his feeding schedule be regulated more? And how?

And no one is going to be at home next spring break (which I know is in a long time, but I want to make sure that this problem will be solved by then) and our neighbor is going to be taking him out and feeding him. I want him to be fed and does his business soon after. Because otherwise it would be way too hard for them to do it if he does his business at random times. I know this is a lot. But please please help if you have any advice at all regarding to this situation. Thanks so much in advance!

[ShadyLady]

You might ask your parents to install a "doggie door" so he could come and go whenever he wants. It means they would have to alter the door though, so hopefully they own the home. If not, they could buy their own door. Make sure it's locked at night to keep other animals out, and unlock it early in the morning.
Leave dry food out for him. He seems to be a nibbler so give him access to food. He's old enough to not overeat. You can give him a small amount of canned food in the morning by mixing it with the dry stuff.

[ShadyLady]

PS He should have fresh water available at all times also.

[jcdogluv]

Thanks for the quick reply! But the problem is.. my mom is big about being clean and every time he goes out and comes back in... she has to take off all the leaves on him. So I doubt she would want him to have free access to the yard. Is there method that I can use to train him to understand that the yard is only for doing business or getting him to do his business at only certain times during the day so that it is more predictable whether he is scratching the door to go play or potty? And also I was thinking... what if my parents leave out the food at 3 and take it up after 15 minutes if he doesn't eat it. After a few days... maybe he would eventually understand that he would have to eat it then or it's going to be gone. Or do you guys think this is a bad idea or have a better suggestion?

[starbuck8]

You have confused him for one thing. First you teach him to scratch at the door when he wants to go out, he does that, and then you get mad at him when he does it, and then you wonder why he goes in the house. The poor thing is clueless as to what you expect of him!

A doggie door teaches him nothing, and is not a good idea all the way around. Doggie doors are the easy way out for the human not training him the proper way. The dog needs to be taught rules, boundaries, and limitations. This is NOT the dogs fault. This is the humans fault. You took on that responsibility when you became a dog owner. They don't come pre-programmed. It's up to you to teach him.

Do you walk him everyday? I don't mean just a meandering walk, not a walk where he is exploring and sniffing around. A fast pace walk where his only option is to go forward, on a short, but relaxed lead. He needs to drain pent up energy, and unless you do that, training him is going to be a lot more difficult.

You do this before any training exercises. Once their energy is drained, they will pay more attn. and pick up your training techniques 100 times faster. In a matter of a day, but you have to stay consistent.

It's not a good idea to leave food available for him to graze. Bad idea, especially when you are having problems with him going in the house. Two meals a day, fed at certain times. Once in the morning, once in the evening. Exercise first, food after. Then taken outside in the yard to do his "job", both morning and night, with some playtime. Praise him greatly after he pees or poops outside.

If you do this everyday, you will establish his routine, and he will catch on almost immediately, and will be much better behaved.

Good Luck!

[ShadyLady]

Everyone has their own way of "training" an animal, but I don't like the idea of "training" them when to eat or go potty. That to me is like training a young child when to eat or go potty. Those are natural functions and could make the animal neurotic if messed with. They usually can hold it through the night, but most dogs will let you know. If you do nothing some of the time but not know when he needs to go, they will just resort to going whever they can, which means in the house. The only thing you can do is keep a log of his potty times to get an idea of his schedule... then work from there.
The same with the food. He might learn to "eat when he can" but do you eat this way? It would make the dog eat too fast when he gets fed, as he might think the food isn't going to come again. This could lead to digestive problems and/or he just might refuse to eat.
You might end up with a neurotic, sad dog who has a bladder problem later in life and only looks forward to his next meal.
Do you want to consider this as "family member"?
Your mother should not be so upset at seeing a few bowls with dog food and water around. If you really want to keep the dog and can't resolve this problem, you will just have to feed him outside, and build him a doghouse.

[ShadyLady]

PS Stop ignoring him! He's looking for attention! That's why he goes to the door all the time. He's still a puppy and wants to play.

[starbuck8]

I disagree! This will NOT make him neurotic, this will not hurt his phsychy! Dogs are primal beings. A dogs thinking patterns do not extend to "if I don't gobble this up I may not get more." A dogs instintual behaviour is to eat fast. This is instinct because in the pack, the dog will eat what they can to keep the other pack members from eating it first. This will not create any digestive problems.

The idea of keeping them on a regular exercise and eating schedule, is to regulate their system. I did not say that if they needed to go out at other times, that they shouldn't be let out!

Yes it is rather like potty training a child, and giving your child meals at the appropriate time. When your child exhibits signs that he needs to potty, then yes he needs to be shown where to go. When it is meal time, the mother brings the food and sets it down. If the child doesn't eat it, it can be taken away and put back at a later time. But a schedule needs to be established.

Giving a dog food to graze on 24/7, is like leaving out the food for a child to eat all day long whenever he feels like it. Thus, the child has control over the mother, and the child has a likelihood of becoming obese, and can develop numerous health problems!

Who is suppose to be the pack leader here? Although dogs are not human, they need leadership! They don't know what you expect if you don't lead them. They don't understand your words, they understand commands, by body language and energy. They need regular and consistent exercise and guidance from you the pack leader!

This has nothing to do with the way "you" eat! More health problems can arise from letting your dog graze, and training will be much more difficult also! Doing this will teach the dog that he is free to do what he wants. Feeding him this way can lead to heart problems, diabetes, and a whole gammit of problems.

This has nothing to do with digestive or bladder problems. Dogs are Dogs! We love them as family members! But their minds and bodies don't work exactly the same as ours. You won't have a "sad" dog because he has to follow the rules. You will have a happy and active dog, as long as he gets plenty of exercise, and then eats when his energy is drained, and he has an appetite. Water should be available at all times, but not food.

This is not the dogs fault! Why in God's name would you punish a dog by putting him outside in a dog house because you didn't do your job as his pack leader?

[ShadyLady]

First of all, you misunderstood about the food. I did not say that the dog should be able to "eat all he wants". I mentioned to mix canned food with dry food for a morning meal. He could then be allowed to nibble the rest of the day's rations. This establishes the human as "provider" and thus master. Or as you say, "alpha".
I also mentioned to log his potty times and to work on it (praise, etc) That way she will be able to distinguish his whines and scratches, since he is going to the door constantly. He's doing it for attention, and because he wants to go outside for exercise (to play). Dogs LIKE to be outside. Dogs also like pack behavior, so if the dog isn't getting any attention it will do what it knows gets attention. If this person knows when the dog has to go they can use methods of shaping & conditioning, like saying: "Let's go potty!" when the dog really needs to go. It's going to be a process, and the dog will learn to associate the words with going potty.
I don't like the idea of leaving the dog out in the yard all the time. I was being sarcastic due to the comment about the mother's "clean thing". The dog is going to have to have access to fresh water all the time, so if the mother can't stand that then maybe the dog should be fed outside. Other dogs have survived it.
Nothing wrong with a pet door, in my opinion. I'm all for making both mine and my pet's life easier.
You would be surprised at what animals understand. I have trained many animals using operant conditioning. I have had cats that can "count", do "high fives", "sit", "sit up", and other behaviors. I have had the smartest dogs where no "alpha" was needed to be established. I have had animals all my life, and have not had any feeding or behavior problems.
The only problems I HAVE had is when I tried to exert dominance.

[ShadyLady]

It's also been proven that diabetics should eat many small meals a day to keep the proper blood sugar balance. This method of eating will also help someone lose weight. The brain and muscles need a proper and continual amount of energy.

[starbuck8]

This has got nothing to do with exerting dominance. Of course you will encounter problems if you exert dominance. That is common sense! I am talking about asserting a calm assertive energy, and yes they do need to see you as their pack leader. I've got some evidence to back up my statements. If you would like to show me yours, I will be happy to look at it.

I too, have had dogs all of my life, and have been involved in training, and volunteered for the SPCA and Shelters, and different methods of having your dog be a member of your pack, so I have experience with different breeds, and different training techniques. I have also done a lot of research, and hands on training. I've learned about a dogs primal needs, and what needs to be done for him to be an emotionally well balanced and happy dog.

Dogs do not understand the words you are saying. He understands your tone when saying them. My dog knows plenty of tricks too, and I use my voice. But I also understand I don't need my voice to train him. It is the body language, tone, and energy, that she is responding to. Nose, Ears, Eyes is actually the order.

I'm definitely NOT "surprised" at what pets learn to do. Quite the opposite! Dogs can be taught to do anything, if they have a calm and assertive pack leader.

In fact my dog saved my life last year. She was saving her packleader, and her instincts kicked in. There is no one out there that is more thankful to their beloved family member, for being the faithful dog she is. I know she is also grateful to me for training her the way I did. She is the happiest little girl in the world, and my best friend!

[starbuck8]

It's also been proven that diabetics should eat many small meals a day to keep the proper blood sugar balance. This method of eating will also help someone lose weight. The brain and muscles need a proper and continual amount of energy.

I'm not sure what you are trying to argue with me here about. If the dog HAD diabetes, this would be a different discussion now wouldn't it? I'm done with this. You just want to be right, without any facts to back it. Have a great day! :)

[ShadyLady]

alpha=dominant, unless I misunderstood something. You seem to be changing your answer though.
I too have trained dogs and know the "techniques". One of those techniques is called "operant conditioning". It is a process of shaping and rewarding. You may not have heard this term but that is what is used to train animals.
I have even trained parakeets, rats, and boyfriends.
I only related the info about diabetics because I wanted to emphasize that the blood sugar should be kept at somewhat a continual level. This is especially ture with small dogs, puppies, and kittens.

[starbuck8]

If you can point out where I would possibly be changing my answer, maybe there has been a misunderstanding, and what I said didn't come across in type. I would be happy to explain if this is the case, but I'm not in the mood to pick apart words either. If something was lost in translation, I appologise.

I will revisit this thread at a later time.

[Alty]

Starbuck I agree with you 100%.

This dog needs a calm assertive onwer/pack leader. He also needs to learn what is expected of him.

Dogs don't understand english, they sense our moods, or temperament and that's what they go by. Yelling at a dog won't get you anywhere, training is only possible once you've asserted your position as pack leader.

The best thing I can suggest, get Cesar Millans book. It works because he's right. It changed my life, it can change yours as well.

This dog is lost, he needs to be found.

[jcdogluv]

You I understand that we need to establish ourselves as the pack leaders. But the problem is that he knows that he needs to do his business outside and signals us. But at the same time, he is always wanting to go play in the yard and he knows that we'll let him out when he scratches the door. So we can never tell whether he is wanting to play or go potty. And what do you guys think about the feeding schedule? Should I take the food up after 15 minutes if he doesn't eat it? And he's about 15 lbs. should he be peeing/pooping about twice a day if we feed him twice?

And I can't really tell if he sees us as pack leaders. Because he'll get down into submissive positions with no problem. But when there's distractions, we are pretty much nonexistent.

[Alty]

My rule has always been, 15 minutes for dinner, after that, the bowl goes up. That way you do set a schedule for dinner time and therefore a schedule for potty time.

My dogs poo around 3 times a day. Once in the morning, once in the afternoon and once in the evening. The older dogs get one meal a day, the puppy two. They also get plenty of exercise, that limits the times that they want to go out "just to play" instead of doing their potty business.

How often do you walk your dog daily and for how long?

[ShadyLady]

If you want to try to establish a potty schedule, I could help. First you have to get the dog to associate the word (or sound, whatever) of "potty" when he actually has to go. It's not hard to do. Just go out with him and when he goe, keep saying potty and praising him.
This method is called "classical conditioning"
When he learns to associate the word with going potty you can then start going to the door and saying potty.
Then you can establish a schedule if you want, but first you have to get him to go for you, so you will have to go outside with him.
A lot of people use this method without even realizing it.

[jcdogluv]

Thanks for all the help! As an update... the situation is actually getting worse. Aahh. For some reason, he has been pooping four times a day. One in the morning after he eats, one in the afternoon after he eats, and we take him on a nice long walk in the evening and he usually poops then. But then we wake up in the morning, there's always a pile of poop in the house, sometimes pee as well. This just started recently. I take him out before bed as well... he usually just pees even if I stay out for a long time. And the other day, he pooped 5 times a day! And sometimes he wouldn't poop when I take him out.. and then the moment after he gets in the house, he poops. This is getting so frustrating because he was doing well for a few months.. and now it's just all messed up. And he's one year old so this should not be happening anymore.. and my parents are wanting to sell him because of this.
I can't really think of why this is happening all of a sudden. We used to feed him purina beneful. My parents did change it to a cheaper dog food. But my dad said that this pooping thing happened before they changed the food. So if you have any advice please help! I would really appreciate it. I really don't want my parents to sell him!

And we are feeding him once a day in the afternoon now, if this is helpful at all.

[Alty]

The dog food may be the culprit. There are good inexpensive dog foods on the market, but they are few and far between. Most cheaper dog foods are nothing but filler, so of course your dog will have to poo more often.

How often are you feeding him? At 1 year of age he should be getting a small meal in the morning and a bigger meal in the evening.

The one thing about potty training is to be consistent, you can't do this half way, it's all in or it won't work. Every time you dog goes out to potty, you go with him, give him the command word you've chosen, when he does his business give him tons and tons of praise.

He's 1 year old, somewhere along the way he picked up this bad habit, so it's going to take some time and effort to turn it around.

Dogs have to learn what we expect of them, and the only way we can teach them is through repitition and a calm, patient attitude.

He'll get there, he just needs a bit more time.

Click on the link I provided, there's some good info there. :)
Puppy Potty Training: How Dogs Communicate | DoItYourself.com