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arcura · Dec 7, 2008, 10:24 PM

De Maria.
I agree!
Fred

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:24 PM

Originally Posted by De Maria

Obviously, their salvation was an illusion since they were not really saved.

Scripture says that they were saved. By what authority do you say not?

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:25 PM

Originally Posted by Akoue

The word "world" refers to things other than the unsaved. Jn.1.10: "He was in the world., and the world came into being through him". Kosmos is used both in 1Jn.13-14 and Jn.1.10. It doesn't appear to mean the same thing.

I agree that the context will dictate what it means. I never said otherwise.

N0help4u · Dec 7, 2008, 10:27 PM

[QUOTE=De Maria;1415559]For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,

We are enlightened by receiving the Holy Spirit, are we not?

Yeah so HOW do we receive and BECOME partakers of the Holy Spirit if we already had the Holy Spirit when we were unsaved?

De Maria · Dec 7, 2008, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Scripture says that they were saved. By what authority do you say not?

By Scripture. Scripture says they have fallen away and won't repent. Can anyone be saved who does not repent of their sins?

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:38 PM

Originally Posted by De Maria

By Scripture. Scripture says they have fallen away and won't repent. Can anyone be saved who does not repent of their sins?

Where does it say that those who were unsaved were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. It says that they were when they were saved, but what about after they turned away from Christ - where does it say that the Holy Spirit continued to indwell?

De Maria · Dec 7, 2008, 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened,

We are enlightened by receiving the Holy Spirit, are we not?

Yeah so HOW do we receive and BECOME partakers of the Holy Spirit if we already had the Holy Spirit when we were unsaved?

You aren't making sense. This is not talking about people in the world. But about believers, who received the Holy Spirit, but fell away and did not repent.

They were never saved, that was only an illusion.

arcura · Dec 7, 2008, 10:40 PM

JoeT,
I have yet to see Tj3 respond to the post by De Maria where she posts quotes by the early Church Fathers.
For some reason I thing I never will for he either can not or won't.
Fred

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:44 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

JoeT,
I have yet to see Tj3 respond to the post by De Maria where she posts quotes by the early Church Fathers.
For some reason I thing I never will for he either can not or won't.
Fred

Fred,

Maybe you did not read what I said several times. I have no interest in discussing opinions. I only want to discuss what scripture says.

Tom

De Maria · Dec 7, 2008, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Where does it say that those who were unsaved were indwelled by the Holy Spirit. It says that they were when they were saved,

Scripture doesn't say they were saved. You do.

but what about after they turned away from Christ - where does it say that the Holy Spirit continued to indwell?

Where does it say that Spirit departed them?

As for me, I would rather believe that the Spirit did depart them when they turned away. But that Scripture doesn't say so. If you can find one that does say so, please post it.

But it won't help your argument. Because this Scripture never calls them who fell away after they received the Holy Spirit, saved. And since, in the end, they were not saved, that means that the unsaved were indwelled by the Holy Spirit.

Sincerely,

De Maria

N0help4u · Dec 7, 2008, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by De Maria

You aren't making sense. This is not talking about people in the world. But about believers, who received the Holy Spirit, but fell away and did not repent.

They were never saved, that was only an illusion.

I'm not making any sense? I thought you were using this scripture to prove that unbelievers have the Holy Spirit before they are saved. I am not following the point of why you used this if that was not why.

Where do you get they were never saved? How could they have never been saved when it says they were and fell away?

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:46 PM

[QUOTE=De Maria;1415606]

Originally Posted by N0help4u

You aren't making sense. This is not talking about people in the world. But about believers, who received the Holy Spirit, but fell away and did not repent.

Scripture says that only those who are saved have the Holy Spirit, so why would you assume that they continue to have the Holy Spirit if they reject their salvation?

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by N0help4u

I'm not making any sense? I thought you were using this scripture to prove that unbelievers have the Holy Spirit before they are saved. I am not following the point of why you used this if that was not why.

I am confused over his reasoning also. He seems to be all over the map.

Akoue · Dec 7, 2008, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

Fred,

Maybe you did not read what I said several times. I have no interest in discussing opinions. I only want to discuss what scripture says.

Tom

And we're discussing opinions about what Scripture says. Are you really uninterested in what the Apostles students have to say? They have nothing to teach us? You've made mention in past of biblical scholars, you talk about the history (which I'm guessing you get from books other than the Bible)--and yet you see no value whatever in how others have understood Scripture? You have nothing to learn from anyone? If your answer to that is No, then why wouldn't you avail yourself of the resources provided by the early Fathers (many of whom were martyred)?

JoeT777 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:50 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

JoeT,
I have yet to see Tj3 respond to the post by De Maria where she posts quotes by the early Church Fathers.
For some reason I thing I never will for he either can not or won't.
Fred

You might as well get some sleep. I think we’ll be waiting till the 2nd, or maybe the 3rd or 4th coming of Christ before we get an answer (this is an inside joke folks).

Strange isn’t it, we answer his questions but Tj doesn’t seem to return the curtsy with a reasoned response.

Goodnight Fred.

arcura · Dec 7, 2008, 10:51 PM

Tj3,
So you chose to ignore what the early Church Fathers said about Jesus, Scrioture and the Church.
That shouts loudly about yourself protection so you can continue to make the FALSE claim that the Catholic Church started in 325 AD.
Whether you like it of not it IS the holy Church founded by Jesus Christ and anything other than that you may say of believe IS an intentional error on your part.

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by Akoue

And we're discussing opinions about what Scripture says.

Maybe your opinions. I am going to scripture to see what it says. God's word directed the Apostles, it is what Jesus used to resolve theologicial questions, and it is the source that I used to determine what sound doctrine is.

arcura · Dec 7, 2008, 10:54 PM

Good night Joe.
Sleep well.
You have done well.
Fred

Tj3 · Dec 7, 2008, 10:54 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Tj3,
So you chose to ignore what the early Church Fathers said about Jesus, Scrioture and the Church.

I don't "ignore". But when I want to know what sound doctrine is, I go to the source.

That shouts loudly about yourself protection so you can continue to make the FALSE claim that the Catholic Church started in 325 AD.

The historical truth really gets under your skin, doesn't it Fred?

arcura · Dec 7, 2008, 10:56 PM

Akoue,
Points well made.
Tom Smith (Tj3) proves again that he has a closed mind which is made up full of bogus Church history.
Fred