[libenitz]

Hi, I own a 2500 sq ft house with the apartment upstairs accounting for 1000 sq ft. of the total. Currently (no pun intended) there is 100amp service to the house which is fed to 2 meters outside. Each meter has a line that goes to its own circuit breaker panel inside the basement. We have 2 electric dryer and 2 ranges. The water heater and heat are oil fed. But still, all the big appliances along with the lights and hairdryers vacuums etc... seems way over the limit. I didn't bother looking at the load calc because it is obvious 100 amp is not adequate. Even if it is, we have a min of 4 A/C window units going in the summer.
Here's the question: Would an electric company provide another 100 amp line so these two would be split completely or would they overhaul with a 200 amp line. I;m guessing the latter, in which case what's the best way to proceed? Must I switch both panels and all circuits to 200amp or could I have the electrician split 200 amp line sending 100 to each box? I guess this would entail having the splitter be before the 2 meters. The circuit breakers are rated 100mva so they are fine. I just don't want to have to do a complete overhaul of both boxes. Live in NH by the way.

Thanks

[me22469]

I would upgrade to a 200 amp service using a midwest 200 amp. Meter base main disconnect. It provides breaker spaces below the main disconnect which would carry two double pole 100 amp breakers. You can then serve one panel with each breaker allowing the meter to serve one dwelling thus leaving one of the original meters to serve the other dwelling. This would be the most cost efficient way to upgrade your service.

[stanfortyman]

In my area we would be required to have two separate meters. This is easily done with a double meter enclosure fed with a single 200A entrance cable/riser.
You can simply feed the existing two panels right from this double meter pan.

If only one meter is necessary then yes, all manufacturers of service equipment make meter/main boxes. You can get them with the two 100A mains already installed.

[libenitz]

Had an electro come out, said I should do 200amp to one box 100 amp to the other. But based on load calc I ended up running I the 100 amp separate to each unit should be fine. My big concern is going to be the inspector going nazi about smoke detection. I know, I know, I should do it, I just hate the idea that you can't make your system safer, you have to make it Safest! But then, you'd likely not go back later and do the extras. Thanks for your input guys.

[tkrussell]

I was going to just leave this post alone, until I saw this comment:

My big concern is gonna be the inspector going nazi about smoke detection. I know, I know, I should do it, I just hate the idea that you can't make your system safer, you have to make it Safest!

The service issue is simple. Since there is a meter and service entrance for the entire home now, another 100 amp service, complete with riser conduit meter, and service disconnect could be added directly next to the existing, assuming there is room, which could then feed the separate panel for the apartment, leaving the existing service and meter feeding the original panel that feeds the main home.

Some savings could be realized by this method, since a 100 amp service with one meter would be cheaper than a entire new 200 amp with two meters, etc. A new 200 amp service with two meters would be recommended, but possibly not necessary.

Don't anyone bring up about a building only being allowed one service entrance, as there still would be only one service entrance,the one aerial cable from utility. Come to Maine,and I can show you hundreds of apartment buildings with one utility cable feeding multiple meter drops, each with separate risers, etc. Looks like hell, but perfectly proper electrically, codewise, etc.

Next, the smoke detectors, you have touched on a sensitive issue.

I am a bit put off by the combination of the words Nazi and Inspector, but that is my problem, I do realize the context and intent. Owners always think inspectors dream up crap just to cause owners to spend money unnecessarily.

Inspectors are usually alone or with other officials when a fire investigation is done, to pick through a burned out building after the fire destroyed the place, which is tolerable to an extent, unless the purpose of the investigation is to determine what caused the fire that killed people.

The smell of cooked flesh can linger.

Somehow a children's flesh smells even more sickening.

Homeowners will hire an electrician to connect their $2000.00 hot tub, and $5000.00 air conditioner, $1500.00 exercise machine, (which usually ends up stashed in the garage) $10,000.00 game/theater room, etc. etc. and then bytch to high heaven about spending $500.00 to put in a standard smoke detector system, to protect themselves.

Fine, if they want to kill themselves and their own loved ones, that is their choice.

To rent a space to innocent residents, and resist the basic safety preventive measures burns my azz.

(Funny, the last syllable of jackass can be said on TV as many times as can be said, but I can't type it here without being automatically censored. Last time I looked, everyone has one)

I know all your trying to do is make a little money to help pay your mortgage, fair enough. More than reasonable. Go for it. It is the American way.

But Jesus Christ, find something else bytch to about.

Guess I can't type the word for female dog here either.

How about our government giving our tax dollars away to people and companies that don't deserve it.

Whoring our national debt to China. I hope we all like chinese food, because they own us. Some day they will be here to collect.


Even buying the goddam smoke detectors gives the chinese more of our money.

And if you think the inspector is making a killing, they are civil servants, go to your state and find out how little they are paid.

Salary range for State inspectors here in Maine is $24,000.00 to whooping $36,000.00. At best they are paid $17 per hour.

Sorry to have unloaded this barrage on you, but you unwittingly brought it up. You have not been the first to complain about inspectors and smoke detectors.

In conclusion, read this:

http://www.nfpa.org/assets/files//PD...Fact_Sheet.pdf


I am making this a Sticky Note in attempt to get as many others to read my thoughts, until admin decides it is too controversial. Hopefully they leave it alone.

And still, in the true spirit of AMHD, I still offered sound advice on the original question.

[libenitz]

TK,

First thanks for the input regarding the 200amp situation. The line that comes in is the old braided crap and the meter box is REAL old so the electro says public service will replace it all. They actually provide the box with 1 or in my case 2 meters and you simply pay a lease fee essentially.
As for the polemic about the smoke system, I had it coming! I know with your "safety supersedes all" argument is going to be difficult tfor me to take a "principle" approach, but my beef is that I can't make a safety upgrade to a gfi outlet in the bathroom without inviting the wrath (sorry) of an inspector. So the lady down the street with a totally dangerous system slides by because she doesn't do any work on her house.
To de-vilify my image in your mind I also should tell you that I do have smoke detection outside each bedroom, just not IN the bedroom, and as for all being in communication with each other I'm not sure.
My real concern, hiding behind the smoke detection, is if I would need a 3rd "house meter" just for smoke detectors.
Regardless, I vented and you called me on it, fair enough!

[Stratmando]

Smoke Detectors save lives. Especially when sleeping.
To verify they are all Interconnected, press Test button and see that it sounds other detectors, may need a second person, and a couple of tests to Check all. If an extra wire exist an is connected, it may be interconnected.
If you can't physically get the interconnect wire between ALL detectors, then use a "Wireless Interconnected Smoke detector"
(one in each group), then if 1 in a group sound, it triggers the others. All need to be set to same address(dipswitch or maybe a learn button)

[tkrussell]

TK,

First thanks for the input regarding the 200amp situation. The line that comes in is the old braided crap and the meter box is REAL old so the electro says public service will replace it all. They actually provide the box with 1 or in my case 2 meters and you simply pay a lease fee essentially.
As for the polemic about the smoke system, I had it coming! I know with your "safety supersedes all" argument is going to be difficult tfor me to take a "principle" approach, but my beef is that I can't make a safety upgrade to a gfi outlet in the bathroom without inviting the wrath (sorry) of an inspector. So the lady down the street with a totally dangerous system slides by because she doesn't do any work on her house.
To de-vilify my image in your mind I also should tell you that I do have smoke detection outside each bedroom, just not IN the bedroom, and as for all being in communication with each other I'm not sure.
My real concern, hiding behind the smoke detection, is if I would need a 3rd "house meter" just for smoke detectors.
Regardless, I vented and you called me on it, fair enough!

Ok that is good news on the service change. While we do substation work for PSNH, I am not familiar with their arrangements for residential services.

Good point to reinforce to others, always check with the local utility as part of the planning process in upgrading a service entrance. Each one has different requirements, and offers different arrangements.

You are not a villain in my mind. I qualified your purpose. Just got my Irish temper up about inspectors and smoke detectors. And not just for you, as I wanted as many others to see my comments I wanted to make to others before you.

You just picked the short straw.

Sounds like what you have is the standard NFPA Fire Alarm requirements, one SD in each bedroom, and one on each level of the structure in a common area.

If you only had put it another way, such as I have smokes but do you need a house meter just for the smokes.

You should not need a third meter for the smokes , just because you have an apartment. The smokes in your section can be on your meter, and the smokes in the apartment on that meter.

Your point maybe how to interconnect them between dwellings/meters.

Good point.

I believe they do not need to be interconnected between dwellings, although a great idea. If a fire is in one unit, let the other unit be alarmed.

Check with your friendly inspector on this. I believe the fire dept has jurisdiction on smoke alarms, not the electrical inspector.

Let us know how you make out.

Happy holidays.

[jim49]

Upgrade your riser cable and water ground. Make sure meter is rated 200 amp. Leave everything else in place.

[libenitz]

Turns out I don't need communication b/t apt smoke detectors. We do have 1 in the hallway upstairs (common area).
PSNH will replace the riser cable (it's really old and worn) and the meter boxes.

My electrician is going to send new cables from the meters to each of the panels (they too are old).

He is also going to upgrade the water main ground which fortunately is right in the same corner of basement.

Thanks for the help everyone.