[classyT]

I am currently thinking that Anti-Christ might be a popular (in Islam) Imam. One who appears moderate enough to deal with Israel and with enough clout with Muslims to stop the constant attacks against Israel. Of course he will come from territory that both Greece and Rome held. Some think from Syria.

I too doubt the Church will be here to see his rise, but might see some early clues.

Something else. The times of the Gentiles has not ended as long as that mosque stands on the temple grounds, so the start of the 70th week might be when Israel gains full control of Jerusalem.

I think so too. I believe the Anti Christ will be able to make the muslims happy as well . I think the times of the Gentiles won't end till Jesus comes back... what say you? I just finished a study with my family on Daniel... I learned a LOT.. haven't heard "the times of the Gentiles" from anyone but my Father.. he drilled that into us... I enjoyed you saying that.

[classyT]

Fred,

THat's OK, you don't have to believe in the rapture to go.. you little hard head you... lol

AND... the rebuilding of the temple will take place.. maybe after the rapture. Who says it has to take years to build it.?

[arcura]

classyT,
When Jesus returns to this planet the temple must exist not before.
Fred.

[adam7gur]

I think that the antichrist has to do much more with the Jewish people.Remember that most of them are still waiting for the Messiah,so antichrist's aim is to fool them and convience them that he is the Messiah.The Jews know that the Messiah is a Jew from the house of King David, so they will not believe or trust themselves in no imam's hands!
He is going to be a Jew from the tribe of Judas and of course Judea was under both Roman and Greek ( Byzantine ) power.
I aggree with you Galveston about the time of the Gentiles .
classyT
Very interesting parallelism of marriage/rapture.
I have learned all those years that God works and reveals Himself through parallelism, f.I. the crossing of the sea /rapture , Noah/rapture , Enoch/rapture...
Fred
We don't have to aggree on everything , but I am sure that we both aggree that Jesus Christ is our Saviour,right?
Since we hold on to at least that ,we are brothers!
As for my statement of truth, God as my Father is my religion and the cross is my denomination.Jesus Christ , the Word that became flesh is my Saviour and my obedience to Him is my tradition!I cannot describe that better than simply being a ''Christian''!
As for the differences that we all have let us all allow the Holly Spirit to teach us.You don't believe in the rapture, I do.May the Holly Spirit open our eyes.
Remember.. Mark 3:26 And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end.
That is not just for Satan, that goes also for the body of the believers.How can a hand separate itself from the body and stand?How can a foot stand by itself, or an eye, or an ear?
We have to hear what the head says and the head is always Jesus!
I am sorry for being preachy, but honestly I cannot stand watching Satan separating us by doing nothing special.We do this to ourselves and we have to stop it.Satan gathers every little servant that he has right this moment and we are fighting about denominations and stuff.There is only one enemy and the Sword that the Lord has given to us must be turned against him and not against ourselves.The Swords that we have in our hands are truths from the Word of God!Don't point them to a brother , point them to the enemy!
How much more must the Lord wait?Be the army that He wants us to be, be the body that He wants us to be, be the Temple that He wants us to be, be the City that He wants to be.
Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it!
We are people from every corner of the world, can you imagine what an army we could be for our Lord.Can you feel satan's agony and fear and horror for us?He knows what we as God's people are capable of.He knows that we can do ANYTHING through Jesus our Lord and God.
From the place that God has placed us , no matter what that is , stand and fight not against each other but against our Father's enemy!

[arcura]

adam7gur,
I agree with you that we Christians do need to unite.
At last count there are over 2 billion of us in about 30,000 different denominations.
In all of those denominations there is far more to agree on than to disagree.
Some do get over zealous on some points and that is sad. Some actually hate other denominations and that is even more sad.
In my case on the rapture I read the book called "The Rapture Trap" by Dr. Paul Thigpen.
After reading that there is no way I can believe in the rapture but I can and most certain;y do believe that those who are in friendship with Jesus Christ will go to and be with Him.
In fact I know of no one who read that book believes differently than I do concerning that.
You have made some excellent points and I heartily agree with them.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[classyT]

classyT,
When Jesus returns to this planet the temple must exist not before.
Fred.

Absolutely! The jews will be sacrificing when the anti-Christ comes in and sets in the temple proclaiming to be God.

[firmbeliever]

i think so too. I believe the Anti Christ will be able to make the muslims happy as well . I think the times of the Gentiles won't end till Jesus comes back...what say you? I just finished a study with my family on Daniel...i learned a LOT..haven't heard "the times of the Gentiles" from anyone but my Father..he drilled that into us....i enjoyed you saying that.

I just wanted to mention one thing, I know this is the Christianity board,but just wanted to say that Muslims are with Jesus (alaihi salaam) whenever he comes back, so we will surely not be with Anti-Christ,but against him,whenever that happens.

[classyT]

Firm,
It is my sincerest hope that you ARE with Jesus firmbeliever. Thanks for your comments.

[classyT]

Adam,

Got to agree with that. If we could unite on what we do believe we could be stronger. IN all honesty it doesn't bother me that Fred and others don't believe in the rapture. IT is what it is though.

You know Adam I grew up being taught that the anit christ will actually be a JEW. I don't believe that anymore. I think the false prophet will be though. What do you think?

[adam7gur]

I believe that the antichrist will be a Jew because he has to convience the Jewish people that he is the Christ , the Messiah.I don't see how the Jewish people will trust a non Jew to hand him such authourity.I could be mistaken though, these are just my thoughts.What makes you believe that he is not going to be a Jew?

[Akoue]

I am sort of on the record as a rapture-denier, but I don't mean to get into that issue here. I am confused about something, though, and I wonder if you would be kind enough to help me to understand where you're coming from on a particular point:

Christ himself denied knowing when the return would come, and Paul tells us that it will come as a thief in the night. So why do you guys think that anyone is in a position to make any predictions at all about, say, whether the false prophet will be Jewish or Muslim, whether the UN or the U.S. will give rise to the antichrist, etc.--you know the detailed stuff?

I promise, this isn't an attempt to change the topic or to pick on your view. I'm just not sure I get where you're coming from on this. Could you help me understand this better?

[arcura]

I agree with Adam.
I do believe the anti-christ will be a Jew.
Fred

[adam7gur]

Akoue
Nobody is in a place to say when or who but the Lord Himself said... Mark 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors.

That's all my friend , nothing more.Anyone who gives a name or a date is mislead and we should not pay attention to that.But we , as the Lord suggested have to see the signs and I am not talking superfiscial things here just like He did not talk about superfiscial things either.He talked about ''the fig tree'' which is something that we can see, feel, touch , observe!
Akoue, of course you know that akoue means in Greek hear !Don't you hear what is going on?I am not saying that you should hear all those voices in the air saying this and that, I am trying to explain that we should all hear what the Lord is crying out , without perhaps using a single word but throwing the ''fig tree'' in our face so that we can realize that ''the summer is near''!
Hope I helped!

[Akoue]

Adam,

Thanks, that helped a bit. I'm still a little confused about the specificity of some of the speculation going on, but I don't want to completely derail your discussion. I'll save further questions for another occasion.

[arcura]

The signs of Jesus coming have been coming for 2000 years.
The fact is that it is sooner now than 2000 years ago.
But all of the prophesies have NOT been fulfilled.
Like I have said,
I'll worry about the second coming AFTER the third temple is built.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Galveston1]

I just wanted to mention one thing, I know this is the Christianity board,but just wanted to say that Muslims are with Jesus (alaihi salaam) whenever he comes back, so we will surely not be with Anti-Christ,but against him,whenever that happens.

As strange as it seems on the surface, of those remaining on Earth during the Great Tribulation, Anti-Christ will have the most problems with Christians, Jews, and Muslims because they are people of "the book", that is, they have a core value of beliefs that they will not give up. And yes, there will be Christians here then. A multitude will be saved during the Great Tribulation.

[Galveston1]

I believe that the antichrist will be a Jew because he has to convience the Jewish people that he is the Christ , the Messiah.I don't see how the Jewish people will trust a non Jew to hand him such authourity.I could be mistaken though, these are just my thoughts.What makes you believe that he is not going to be a Jew?

I've got to think about that some more. Do you have any scriptures that show that the Jews will actually believe that Anti-Christ is one of them? He will sit in the Temple, but that will be by conquest, I think.

And to Fred, how can you think the prophecies of Daniel are already fulfilled? Daniel's prophecies on the end-time deal with the 70th week which IS the Great Tribulation period. Once that week starts there is a time line that anyone can follow on the calendar.

[arcura]

I just think that Daniel being an old testament book refers to things that took place before the birth of Jesus.
I might be wrong but the 70 weeks took place during the Roman occupation.
Fred.

[adam7gur]

Galveston1
As I wrote these are just my thoughts , a product of logic which is also God given.
God has done everything through the Jewish people , Satan will copy that because his job is to present himself as god.He uses always a bit of truth for a bait just as he did with Jesus in the desert.He used the Word of God to tempt Him, he did not used something that was a complete lie.Satan knows that God uses the Jewish people through history for His will, so my thought is that Satan will do the same.
Antichrist does not mean the opposite of Christ , but in Christ's place.In other words the antichrist is not going to do the exact opposite of what Jesus did but he will try to take our Lord's place.He knows the Scriptures very well, he knows that Jesus had to come through the Jewish people and that everything starts through the Jewish people , so he is going to come through the same path!Still my thoughts, nothing more!

[arcura]

adam7gur,
Your thoughts on that subject make a lot of sense.
Peace and kindness,
Fred