[angcm78]

We are in the process of changing our bathroom flooring in the basement. They originally had carpet in it, and a leak in the shower proved how bad of an idea that was. Anyway, for a basement subfloor, we put in Dricore and then plywood on top of it, and will proceed to lay down 12" vinyl tiles on the plywood. We realized the toilet would need to be raised as the Dricore + plywood + tile is about 1.5" above the cement. We bought the wax seal as well as a piece that is to fit into the existing pipe, then you tighten the four allen screws to push out the rubber piece that holds it tight. Okay, all is fine so far, BUT, when we removed the toilet (which we are new at), we see that the pipe can't be anymore than 3" wide, so I will need to get a different piece to insert as the one I have is for a 4" pipe. Hopefully such a fitting exists... the main problem, is it looks like they took the original flange and welded or soldered them together. The pipe therefore has bumps and such around it. I'm afriad if I even do find a fitting long enough and small enough (width-wise) to get in there, that the sides are too uneven for that rubber piece to work. It all looks like metal in the pipe, no pvc. Is there anything about this I am missing or something else I should be doing? Another question is, what should I be bolting the higher flange into... the cement? Or the original flange that is welded in?

I'm including some pictures below to help in my explanation.

THANK YOU in advance!

Angela

[massplumber2008]

Hi Angela:

You have a LEAD PIPE there. It runs underground and connects onto a cast iron pipe.. somewhere.

The lead pipe looks like it is in good shape. It has been joined/sweated to a brass flange and that connection also looks good.

In this circumstance I would recommend that you purchase a closet flange extension kit (see picture below)... sold at most home supply stores or at a local plumbing supply house. While there purchase some extra long toilet bolts (called johnnie bolts in my area), a couple wax gaskets, and some 3 inch tapcon screws and the right drill bit (see tapcon screw box). You will also need 4-5 small washers to fit under the tapcon screw heads... ;)

In my picture you will see a foam/rubber backing to each extension piece... these would be best for your situation. You will need to clean that old flange of any wax/build up of any kind and then you will stack the flanges so that they are at least flush with the finished floor. Be sure to install the tall johhnie bolts into the old flange and through the flange extensions... ;) Don't forget to center the bolts to flange. Then use drill bit to drill down through the holes in the flanges and into the cement. Then "snug" the flanges down with the tapcon screws and small washers.

Install tile, set wax gasket onto toilet bowl and set toilet bowl... etc. etc. etc... :)

If the extension flange kit you get doesn't come with foam backing then you will need to clean the old flange ridiculously clean and then silicone the flanges into place. These flanges should dry for days before setting the toilet!

Lastly, I have seen where people have used 3 or more wax gaskets to basically build a wax tunnel up to the toilet. I have actually seen it work for years, but eventually this way fails as it is a non-mechanical method of joing the toilet to the plumbing. You would NOT know of a leak for a long time either as the floor is raised and leak would not show up until odor was detected... YUCK! So, opt. for the extension flanges in this case... ok?

Let us know if you have questions...

MARK

[ballengerb1]

Yep on all counts. The PVC spacers should do just fine. I used drycore several times this past year and it works well but does add some lift to the toilet.

[angcm78]

Thank you SOOOOOOO much for your reply and all of the information! That is so very helpful! While out and about I went to Lowe's and they gave me what they had for this project: a closet flange spacer kit. I'll include pictures. It is two rubber pieces and two plastic pieces, the really long jonnie bolts and then they found some cement anchors and 3-inch screws to fit down through everything from the top of the flanges to the cement. Is all of this similar to what you were referring to? Should I still silicone these together? Do you do that all around each surface, or just closer to the inside? The silocone will dry like really hard glue, correct?

So that I am understanding correctly... I will clean the original brass flange very well (done!), drill holes in the cement and insert the anchors, then put the long jonnie bolts on the brass flange, add the four spacer pieces (siliconing each one as I put it on?), then I will let it dry for days and later apply the wax ring and put the toilet on? Does this sound correct at all?

I was given a different wax ring today than the one I previously purchased (pictured below). Any advice on which to use? The yellow box one says it's reinforced and guaranteed for 10 years, the other one says it's jumbo-sized. I think those were the main differences they mentioned.

Thanks a million for your replies! This site is amazing, especially for an amateur DIYer.

Angela

[massplumber2008]

Hey angela.. :) Happy Thanksgiving!

You should not need silicone here... those rubber flanges go in between each extension flange and should be seal enough as long as all gets tightened down pretty good. Of course, you start with a rubber flange first... :rolleyes:

If your flanges end up FLUSH with the finish floor.. use the JUMBO wax gasket with horn. If you end up above the finished floor then use the regular wax gasket with horn.

Those cement anchors can be used but I'm thinking you will have some difficulties using this system unless you can be VERY accurate! And the heads on the zinc-plated screws look like they will pull right through the hole in the flange... probably need the small washers to go under the heads to really secure these well, but check first, of course.

You will also need to use 6 anchors/screws to get these flanges to seal properly. If only use three you will have some area between the rubber seal and the flange that will PUCKER! And cause a leak... I guarantee that! Use six screws/anchors here and you should be just fine!

If you have difficulties with the anchors then STOP and go get the TAPCON screws and drill bit. Here, no anchors are needed... just set all, drill down past flanges and into concrete and then screw in the masonry tapcon screws!

Hope that is all clear... looking good there!

Have a great day...

MARK

[angcm78]

Hey angela..:) Happy Thanksgiving!

You should not need silicone here....those rubber flanges go in between each extension flange and should be seal enough as long as all gets tightened down pretty good. Of course, you start with a rubber flange first...:rolleyes:

If your flanges end up FLUSH with the finish floor..use the JUMBO wax gasket with horn. If you end up above the finished floor then use the regular wax gasket with horn.

Those cement anchors can be used but I'm thinking you will have some difficulties using this system unless you can be VERY accurate!! And the heads on the zinc-plated screws look like they will pull right through the hole in the flange....probably need the small washers to go under the heads to really secure these well, but check first, of course.

You will also need to use 6 anchors/screws to get these flanges to seal properly. If only use three you will have some area between the rubber seal and the flange that will PUCKER!! and cause a leak...I guarantee that!! Use six screws/anchors here and you should be just fine!!

If you have difficulties with the anchors then STOP and go get the TAPCON screws and drill bit. Here, no anchors are needed...just set all, drill down past flanges and into concrete and then screw in the masonry tapcon screws!

Hope that is all clear...looking good there!!

Have a great day...

MARK

THANKS SOOOOOO MUCH!! Yes, I have 6 screws and 6 anchors, I just didn't take pictures of all the packets. I think I will look for the tapcon screws, though, that sounds easier, as pounding the ancors into the cement through the brass flange sounds a little difficult. It seems crystal clear, I appreciate all the answers and the follow up! Now I just have to do it :)

Happy Thanksgiving! I'll let you know how it goes ;)

[Milo Dolezal]

I think those 3" bolts will be short for your application. If positive, then take one bolt, go to Home Depot and buy exactly same size bolt but 1" longer. Use those...