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schryk · Nov 22, 2008, 09:55 AM

I have baseboard heat and the guy before me added a line to another room. He ran one line from the main line to the unit and one line back to the main but he never cut the flow in the main that would creat a constant systen flow through the new unit. It's just a dead end and never heats up. How hard a job is it going to be to cut and plug the main at that point?

massplumber2008 · Nov 22, 2008, 11:09 AM

Hey Schryk:

Cut and plug... or cut and connect..? Why not cut and connect and use the baseboard... just curious?

Gas or oil system? How old is your system.. How many zones? Are the zones isolated with shutoffs or do you need to drain the entire system to work with the pipes?

Let me know more.. I'll be back on tonight around 8:00ish...

MARK

schryk · Nov 22, 2008, 07:46 PM

My system is gas. They needed to do this when they installed the new unit.

HEATER
L l
L l
L cut l
_______________________l_________l________________ ____________
Main line from furnace no break to furnace

How big of a job will it be to cut the main and place elbows to establish a continuous flow through the new heater? I will need to sweat new joints. I don't want to empty the whole system. Then how do I refill it?

massplumber2008 · Nov 22, 2008, 08:27 PM

Sorry... but I asked some pretty important questions needed to answer your questions at my first post...

How old? How many zones? Are the zones isolated with shutoffs?

AN additional question needed is what kind of pipe is involved? Black metal or copper pipe?

Let me know answers to all so can advise best here!

schryk · Nov 23, 2008, 07:09 AM

Originally Posted by massplumber2008

Sorry...but I asked some pretty important questions needed to answer your questions at my first post...

How old? How many zones? Are the zones isolated with shutoffs??

AN additional question needed is what kind of pipe is involved?? Black metal or copper pipe?

Let me know answers to all so can advise best here!

Idon't know how old. About 20 or 30 years. One zone. No shutoffs except to the new unit.
FIGURES! Copper pipe. Gas fire furnace. I have decent skills but no experience in emptying and refilling a system.

massplumber2008 · Nov 23, 2008, 08:07 AM

Got you...

I'll be back on tonight and can go through the details on this... check back around 8:00. Turns out I have an emergency boiler problem for a family member so I'm off and running.

schryk · Nov 23, 2008, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by schryk

Idon't know how old. About 20 or 30 years. One zone. No shutoffs except to the new unit.
FIGURES! Copper pipe. Gas fire furnace. I have decent skills but no experiance in emptying and refilling a system.

I hope you fixed your boiler problem without too much trouble.

I hope the same for me too.

massplumber2008 · Nov 24, 2008, 03:29 AM

Hey Schryk:

Copper tubing is GOOD news. If it was black steel pipe then you would have been in for wayyyy too much work! BUT IT IS COPPER... SO...

Shut power to the boiler. Then, drain the system by shutting off the boiler water supply shutoff. Here, follow water pipe into the boiler until you see a shutoff and a fill valve (see picture below for an idea of what you are looking for). Open vents at radiators and baseboards to allow air into the system so system will drain completely.

Then pipe this in so that the baseboard becomes part of the entire loop OR you will need to install MONOFLO supply tee and regular tee fitting into the main run so this baseboard will work (more about this later). If piping so new baseboard becomes part of the loop then the main pipe you are cutting into should be a 3/4" copper tubing. If main pipe is larger than 3/4" then you may need to go with the monoflo fitting(s) as mentioned above.

Once all is connected properly you will open the shutoff just before the fill valve and the boiler should start to fill. Check for leaks as you go. Filling the system is going to work best if you have some help.

Some of the fill valves have a FAST FILL feature where you lift the lever or screw the screw IN to increase the fill rate. If you use this feature be sure not to leave the area as it can overpressurize the system and can cause the relief valve to blow off and flood the area...

Then, you will purge the air from the system... either through boiler drains at the boiler or through vents on the baseboard or radiators. Ideally, the boiler fill valve will automatically set pressure to 12-15 PSI... again, can use fast fill as you start to get water out vents/boiler drains you will want to shut down fast fill and let boiler fill automatically to 12-15PSI.

Let me know if you have more questions on this...

MARK

schryk · Nov 24, 2008, 08:21 PM

Thank you very much for all the help. I tried to get some pictures of the setup.
The far right pipe goes to a baseboard next to the new one. Then the next two go to the new radiator. The next pipe in line goes to the baseboard next to the new one. How does the first and last pipe work but not the two middle ones. Is it because of the crimped looking fitting? Is that the monoflow supply tee you talked about? Does this picture make any sense to you? How would you fix this and does all the green on the pipes worry you?

massplumber2008 · Nov 25, 2008, 05:24 AM

Hey Schryk:

This statement has me confused a bit-->> The far right pipe goes to a baseboard next to the new one. Then the next two go to the new radiator. The next pipe in line goes to the baseboard next to the new one. How does the first and last pipe work but not the two middle ones...

Are you saying that the middle pipes with the shutoffs on them go to the baseboard you want to install..? Is this baseboard hooked up and not heating..? Let me know.

The crimped looking tee is in fact a MONOFLO tee fitting... these fittings are DIRECTION SPECIFIC and divert some of the flow of the main run into the heater... a regular tee acts as the return.

The green corrosion doesn't really concern me... see it all the time and most of the time it is not a big deal.

I also saw the fill valve with backflow preventer or relief valve attached. Hopefully, you see that, too... :)

Hey, get back to me... clarify exactly what you need to do because now I understand your system better (pics. Really help here... ;) ).

MARK

schryk · Nov 25, 2008, 05:30 AM

[
Yes, the two pipes with the shutoffs are to the radiator that is NOT heating up.
The fill valve will let the system fill back up. Am I right about that? I think we are getting closer to a solution.

massplumber2008 · Nov 25, 2008, 07:09 AM

I.m sorry... but I'm still a little confused... :( Bear with me now as I think we can resolve this in a couple more posts... ok?

At your first post you wanted to cut and plug the main?

Now the heater is attached but no heat is coming out?

So although I'm not clear I'm figuring that you want to get heat out of the baseboard that is not giving heat... right? If this is the case, check under the covers on either end of the baseboard... there should be a vent fitting that you use a key or a screwdriver to open and release air from the baseboard. Once all the air is purged then you should get heat.

If there are NO VENTS and the shutoffs in the basement do not have little caps on them to release air then you will need to install a vent to get this heat up and running. Since you have shutoffs for this baseboard it will actually be a pretty easy install for adding new vent.

Let me know what you find in terms of a vent to release air. Also let me know, of course, if I'm getting this right.

Thank you...

MARK

schryk · Nov 25, 2008, 07:48 AM

First of all I would like to tell you how much I appreciate all of your help. You are being very kind and patient.
As soon as I get home I will vent the radiator again. From the picture you see does it look as if this should be working? To me I can't see how. What is making the water flow into the new radiator? Looks loke two pipes stuck on the main. Where is the flow?

massplumber2008 · Nov 25, 2008, 06:29 PM

Excellent question... :)

Check out this website. It says it all better than I can...

AOL Search

Your monoflo tees may not look like the ones at this link as they are showing updated monoflo tees, but you definitely have monoflo tees so this link should really explain things. Do not take everything to be absolute... but use as a guide to explore your system.

Start at the top and read the entire page. It is a two-part story!

Pop back with any questions and let me know how you made out with purge of system.

Thanks...

MARK

schryk · Nov 25, 2008, 08:03 PM

Purge the system when it's hot?

schryk · Nov 25, 2008, 09:14 PM

[QUOTE=massplumber2008;1394165]Excellent question... :)

Check out this website. It says it all better than I can...

AOL Search

Your monoflo tees may not look like the ones at this link as they are showing updated monoflo tees, but you definitely have monoflo tees so this link should really explain things. Do not take everything to be absolute... but use as a guide to explore your system.

Start at the top and read the entire page. It is a two-part story!

Pop back with any questions and let me know how you made out with purge of system.

Thanks...

MARK[/QUOTE

I opened the screw to purge the radiator after letting the system heat up a bit. Some air came out but nothing was happening after that. I knew something else must be wrong. We spent so much time on flow and valves that I knew the system WAS set up properly. It seemed as if there wasn't any pressure in the line.
So I fiddled with all the knobs around the furnace and they all seemed to be on. Then I saw the lever that is on top of the boiler fill valve. I lifted it and the water started to flow into the system and the pressure built up. It seemed to take in a couple of gallons. I then purged the radiator and it took about 15 seconds for the air to vent out and the hot water to spray out. The valve was stuck and it needed to be wiggled a bit. WE DID IT! I bet the system works a whole lot more efficiently. I wonder how long it was stuck closed. I don't know how to thank you for all your help. You spent a lot of time on me and I am sure your time if very valuable to you. I have learned so much over the last couple of days and I will remember all of the lessons you taught me.
Thank you again and may I wish you and yours a very happy holiday season.

By the way my name is Paul

massplumber2008 · Nov 25, 2008, 09:43 PM

Paul...

I enjoy helping! Good detective work on your part!

And a happy holiday season to you and yours as well!

hladik · Nov 27, 2008, 09:22 AM

I have 4: electric 220 volt baseboard heaters contoled with Mears M402, double pole thermostats. The thermostats, four in all, diagree in temperature calibration and some fail to enable as the room temperature falls. They are over 20 years old and the units are full of dust.
What maintenace other than replacement is recommended?

EPMiller · Nov 27, 2008, 02:53 PM

Originally Posted by hladik

I have 4: electric 220 volt baseboard heaters contoled with Mears M402, double pole thermostats. The thermostats, four in all, diagree in temperature calibration and some fail to enable as the room temperature falls. They are over 20 years old and the units are full of dust.
What maintenace other than replacement is recommended?

Turn the power off, vacuum them out, put a thermometer that you trust next to each one and run them by the thermometer. In other words, ignore the temp markings on the tstat. If they fail to call for heat in a reasonable manner (in other words, too much temperature swing), you have to replace them.