[geoffrey22]

I have removed two ceiling light fixtures. Both lights were controlled together from two locations (top and bottom of steps, both single pole switches). The power entered through the first light. From this fixture, a single run of two-wire (white & black) connected the second fixture. Two-wire connected from the first fixture to the switch at the bottom of the steps. From this switch, Three-wire (white, black, & red) connected to the switch at the top of the stairs.

My wife wants me to install two ceiling fans w/ lights in these locations. I have installed two ceiling fan boxes and have questions concerning the wiring:

1)My WIFE wants to be able to control both fans and both lights separately at both locations.

2)I am TRYING to talk her into having two switches at the top, one controlling both lights & the other controlling both fans. With the same at the bottom. We could use the pull strings to achieve the amount of light or fan motion.

I am not sure how to wire choice #1 or choice #2. If diagrams are possible, they would be greatly appreciated.

[geoffrey22]

We will most like use Hunter fans for this installation. Diagrams are not necessary.

[EPMiller]

Whoa. Dual variable control locations for control of a fan's speed and light level. I don't know if that is possible with off the shelf parts.

You can also get a 3-way fan speed control and light dimmer that uses only a 3-way switch in the other box, but the speed and brightness will only be able to be controlled from one spot.

Edit: I just reread your question. I misunderstood the original wiring scheme. You now have individual lights on individual switches. Is there something else fed on beyond the top switch box? You are going to have to do extensive rewiring to get 3-way switching in. I'm not good at posting diagrams, will have to let that to one of the long-timers. Hope nobody got the first post and doesn't see this edit!

If you know enough to do this job you know enough to mark white wires for switch use and all that other code stuff. If you don't, call an electrician.

[geoffrey22]

Judging by your answer and rereading my post, I don't think I explained the original setup or what is needed correctly. I'll try it again.

There were two ceiling light fixtures, light 1 & light 2. Light 1 & Light 2 always came on/off together. They could be turned on/off by one switch at the top of the stairs (box 2) or one switch at the bottom of the stairs (box 1).

The power source entered light 1. Light 1 connected to light 2 with 2-wire (black & white). Light 1 connected to box 1 with 2-wire. Box 1 connected to box 2 with 3-wire (black, white, & red). Box 2 does not feed anything else. Box 1 does feed another switch, which runs a light in a hallway.

Here is some miscellaneous information. I don't know if it is relevant or not. Before the power source reaches "light 1," it feeds a light in the laundry room, a light and exhaust fan in a bathroom, and an outlet in the living room which all of my entertainment components are connected via power surge protector. (plus the light in the hallway previously mentioned, but this is done at box 1). I guess I'm wondering if this line could handle two ceiling fans with lights? The circuit is on a 15 amp breaker. Do I need to run a new dedicated line for this project?

Here's what is desired: two ceiling fans with lights. The lights controlled in two locations and the fans in one location (this is different from what I first posted). Speed of the fans and brightness of the lights are not a huge concern. It would be nice if the speed and brightness for each unit could be controlled at box 1.

Each light could be turned on/off individually at box 1 & box 2 (dimmer switches in box 1, if possible). Each fan could be turned on/off individually at box 1 (individual speed control here too, if possible). Below is a "text diagram", but I don’t know how to do the wiring. I know that there will be lots of dry wall repair to do following this project. If the circuit can handle this additional load, can I use the power source that is already coming to the “Fan 1 & Light 1” location or will I have to run it to the switches in box 1 first?

Box 1 (downstairs)
Hallway light switch
Light 1 switch (dimmer?)
Light 2 switch (dimmer?)
Fan 1 switch (speed control?)
Fan 2 switch (speed control?)


Box 2 (upstairs)
Light 1 switch
Light 2 switch

[EPMiller]

judging by your answer and rereading my post, I don't think I explained the original setup or what is needed correctly. I'll try it again.

There were two ceiling light fixtures, light 1 & light 2. Light 1 & Light 2 always came on/off together. They could be turned on/off by one switch at the top of the stairs (box 2) or one switch at the bottom of the stairs (box 1).

The power source entered light 1. Light 1 connected to light 2 with 2-wire (black & white). Light 1 connected to box 1 with 2-wire. Box 1 connected to box 2 with 3-wire (black, white, & red). Box 2 does not feed anything else. Box 1 does feed another switch, which runs a light in a hallway.

Ahh, more light on the subject. :) This explanation is actually how I originally read your first post. Shouldn't have edited it.

Here is some miscellaneous information. I don't know if it is relevant or not. Before the power source reaches "light 1," it feeds a light in the laundry room, a light and exhaust fan in a bathroom, and an outlet in the living room which all of my entertainment components are connected via power surge protector. (plus the light in the hallway previously mentioned, but this is done at box 1). I guess I'm wondering if this line could handle two ceiling fans with lights? The circuit is on a 15 amp breaker. Do I need to run a new dedicated line for this project?

You will have to do a calculation of the current power consumption on that circuit. Add the wattages of every piece of your entertainment system together (I know, you don't run every piece at one time, but this is how it's done) add the wattages of all light bulbs on the circuit (preferably use the max wattage allowed in the fixture). Divide that number by 120 and you will get the amp draw. Add the amp rating of the exhaust fan to this number (it's on that info plate somewhere inside it) and you will have a figure to use for the current load on the circuit. You might know by this time if it's going to be possible or not. (That big plasma display you dream of eats electric like candy and you have to have some circuit capacity left over for that!) Then go and research the fan/lights that you want. Just the lighting on two of them can add another 4 amps or so. Add the fan loads. If there are any more unused outlets on the circuit you will have to make educated guesses on what might get plugged in (vac, extra lighting, fans... ) and decide on how much margin of that 15 amps you have left over. I don't like to go much beyond 80% capacity (12 amps). Sounds like a separate circuit, right?

Here's what is desired: two ceiling fans with lights. The lights controlled in two locations and the fans in one location (this is different from what I first posted). Speed of the fans and brightness of the lights are not a huge concern. It would be nice if the speed and brightness for each unit could be controlled at box 1.

Each light could be turned on/off individually at box 1 & box 2 (dimmer switches in box 1, if possible). Each fan could be turned on/off individually at box 1 (individual speed control here too, if possible). Below is a "text diagram", but I don't know how to do the wiring. I know that there will be lots of dry wall repair to do following this project. If the circuit can handle this additional load, can I use the power source that is already coming to the “Fan 1 & Light 1” location or will I have to run it to the switches in box 1 first?

Box 1 (downstairs)
Hallway light switch
Light 1 switch (dimmer?)
Light 2 switch (dimmer?)
Fan 1 switch (speed control?)
Fan 2 switch (speed control?)


Box 2 (upstairs)
Light 1 switch
Light 2 switch

Your ideas for switching, dimming and speed controls stated here is possible. You will need 3-way dimmers and switches. The speed controls are just basic wiring. The actual wiring of this will be interesting. Easiest (not least copper) would be to run another 14-3 cable between the two switch boxes for the second light control. Then run a 14-3 cable to both ceiling boxes from box 1 and eliminate the existing 2 conductor cable between the ceiling boxes. Use the remaining old 14-2 to bring power down to the switch box 1. EXCEPTING the runs between the switch boxes, all whites (neutrals) get connected together in box 1. Use the red conductors to the ceiling boxes for the lights and the corresponding blacks for the fans. The runs between the switch boxes are a standard out and back 3-way wiring like the existing switching.

To spell this out in any more detail will take a lot more time. You already got more than an hour of consulting for free. I really hesitate to go farther into an individual-conductor-wiring explanation. I have told you plenty if you actually have the know-how to do this job. If you have trouble doing 3-way switching on your own, this is going to be a real stretch. You are going to have 20+ conductors plus several jumpers and wire nuts in probably a 4 gang box on that box 1. 2 gang will not be big enough. There are three conductor colors plus bare, but different wires of the same color do different things. YOU HAVE TO KEEP THEM STRAIGHT. Really, I will reiterate what I said earlier. If you think you can do this job you are agreeing that you know how to mark the white wires for switch use, what correct lead lengths are, box fill limitations, bonding and ground connection methods, and all that other code stuff. If you don't, call an electrician. You could save a good bit of cash anyway by having all the walls open and ready for them, even to the drilling of holes in the studs if you know what code requires for that part of the job. If you goof the holes it will cost you though. These kind of jobs are candy for me, and they also are the ones that I get most calls for help on after the handyman started the project. It's really sad when I have to pull a lot of his work out or worse, fix framing and whatnot when it was started wrong. THAT costs money. Of course it can be even scarier what I see when I go in to fix something that he "finished" but still doesn't work right.

EPM

[geoffrey22]

Thank you so very much for your time. I was figuring that I would probably need another circuit, but I wasn't exactly sure how to calculate it. I'll keep that info for future use as well.
I should be OK once I get the wiring in place (I just wanted to be sure). My biggest struggle is something you mentioned, fitting all of this in the box.

I'll be sure to follow all code requirements including recoding the white wires for "hot" and securing the wires along the routes to the boxes.

Unfortunately, I'm going to have to wait till next weekend to get back to this project. Family activities fill our weekday calendar and I don't think my wife and kids will enjoy me sawing through drywall and drilling through joists in the middle of the night.

Thanks again for the help. Hopefully, I won't have to call in a professional. Like everyone, our budget is stretched as far it can go.

[ceilingfanrepair]

I doubt you need another circuit.

You will need to add an extra wire from the top switches to the first fan, and from the first fan to the second fan.