[Tj3]

Besides, I don't think the Bible is arguable. It is the Word of God.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

John 8:47
He who is of God hears God’s words;

Acts 12:24
But the word of God grew and multiplied.

You are absolutely right. Too often we fail to realize this, and people or denominations try to force fit their denomination's theology onto the Bible, rather than submitting themselves to what the Bible says, and allow it to interpret itself!

[savedsinner7]

Having said all of this, I believe that is why it is incumbent upon us to truly try to understand the bible as best we can. I am asking for your own insight into the parable...help me see what I am missing.

In summary, I'm not upset or anything like that! When we argue, we need not be afraid to do so as long as we provide reasons for why we believe what we believe. That's all I am saying. :)

When I spoke of another level and of the thief taking what was freely received, I was referring to personal experience.

I was at a prophetic meeting where I received much from the LORD in personal direction. I went away from that meeting high on the Holy Spirit with fresh vision for my life and what God's purpose for me is. The very next day, what I had heard from the LORD began to fade.

This is not the first time the enemy has used this trick. He does this often.

When I speak of another level to the parable, I am referring to what the LORD has revealed to me in prayer and meditation on His Word. The more time I spend seeking to know what He says and what He means by it, the Holy Spirit guides me to deeper understanding.

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own but will tell you what he has heard. He will tell you about the future.

1 Corinthians 2:13
When we tell you these things, we do not use words that come from human wisdom. Instead, we speak words given to us by the Spirit, using the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths.

Proverbs 2:2
Tune your ears to wisdom,and concentrate on understanding.

Proverbs 2:6
For the Lord grants wisdom!From his mouth come knowledge and understanding.


The Word of God does not have to be hard to understand. We just have to ask Him to open our eyes and ears to see and hear what He wants to show us!

[arcura]

jakester,
You got me right. That is the point I was attempting to make.
There are many different bible issues that are debated in several ways.
But when the cool debate fails then heated debate often turns to arguing which leads to hard headed insistence arguing and then comes the break away.
Some break ways are not along the road I just mentioned, some happen just from a failure of cool debate not being convincing.
But I have seen debate turn to heated arguing to actual violence.
Relgion can be a very emotional issue with many people.
Look at what the religious terrorists are doing today as an extreme example.
Peace and kindness does not always work but I still pray for peace and kindness for all,
Fred (arcura)

[revdrgade]

The parables are not easy to understand because they are about the "Kingdom of God", a spiritual kingdom.

The Jews were used to the "kingdom of Israel". Jesus disciples wanted to know when this would be restored. But He spoke to them of a different kind of kingdom. One where man would not rule, but only God would rule and even then it would be in hearts of those who were adopted into it.

I believe that Jesus was being purposefully "slow" in explaining this kingdom because all the teachings of the church leaders at that time were about a physical kingdom that the Messiah would bring and rule over with Him for a thousand years.

But the kingdom of God(kingdom of heaven, kingdom of Christ) is within us(those who allow God to rule rule over them as king and lord).

This kingdom seems small to the world, but the citizens are greater than the sands on the seashore.
This kingdom does not spend its time condemning and ripping out suspects, but goes about the task of proclaiming redemption in the blood of Christ to those who repent.
This kingdom is not brought about by our power, but we simply put the yeast of the gospel into the natural grain and the living word(yeast) causes the growth.

But for those whose hearts are turned against God's rightful place in their lives they receive only parables so that they do not understand, turn and repent. Only God knows who these are but we are to go on sowing the seed and letting it do its work.

Matt 13:12-15
13 This is why I speak to them in parables:

"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.

14 In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:

"'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;
You will be ever seeing but never perceiving.
15 For this people's heart has become calloused;
They hardly hear with their ears,
And they have closed their eyes.
Otherwise they might see with their eyes,
Hear with their ears,
Understand with their hearts
And turn, and I would heal them.'
NIV

[arcura]

revdrgade,
Thanks much for your thoughts on that.
They are good ones, well said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[cogs]

Haha, isn't this funny - both were talking about the same thing:
jakester: A person hears the word of God and not very long afterward, that person’s commitment to the truth is tested... The second person immediately hears the good news and is excited about it for a time, but when God begins to test that person’s faith through tribulation or persecution, that person then realizes that following Jesus is not something he wants to do.
savedsinner7: I have heard personally from the LORD and been in His presence and within hours of His withdrawing back His presence the enemy comes to take that which was received.
Wonder why the enemy did that? Could it be so that your 'commitment to the truth is tested', and to 'test your faith through tribulation or persecution'?
So savedsinner7 received a little seed, and satan came to sow some weeds. To let your seed grow, would be to stay in god's will. savedsinner7, you're lucky to have received temptation... like they said, when the plant struggles, it's stronger.

[arcura]

cogs,
Faith is often tested.
It is true that working one's faith strengthens it.
The more it is tested the more opportunity to strength one's faith.
The stronger the faith the easier it is to resist sin.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[cogs]

cogs,
The stronger the faith the easier it is to resist sin.

Lol sometimes I think 'resistance is futile'. That's where I am right now: figuring out how to resist temptation. My cry to god is, 'help me, I'm going to fall and I know it'. I don't know how he'll help me, but I am glad that I'm in the fight, instead of just accepting inevitable failure.

[savedsinner7]

lol sometimes i think 'resistance is futile'. that's where i am right now: figuring out how to resist temptation. my cry to god is, 'help me, i'm going to fall and i know it'. i don't know how he'll help me, but i am glad that i'm in the fight, instead of just accepting inevitable failure.

I can totally relate to this. I get really frustrated sometimes when I can't keep myself in His will, but then I wasn't made to be self-reliant--its a lie.

[johnstma]

UNDERSTANDING THE PARABLE OF THE MUSTARD SEED

Mark 4:30-32 "What shall we say the kingdom of God is like, or what parable shall we use to describe it? It is like a mustard seed, which is the smallest seed you plant in the ground. Yet when planted, it grows and becomes the largest of all garden plants, with such big branches that the birds of the air can perch in its shade."

This is actually a prophecy. It says that the ministry of Jesus Christ (Yeshua) will start small, almost unoticed. The seed when planted - referring to his death from crucifixion (John 12:24) will grow and sprout many churches and a world wide Christian religious movement. This compared to the mustard tree. The mustard tree is not a large tree by its nature compared to other trees, not even large enough to pearch birds, but this is a super-large mutant mustard tree - almost large for its own good.

The "birds of the air" that come to nest symbolise false teachers, false doctrines, heresies, and teachings of demons that come to nest in the branches (Mark 4:3-4,13-15) The fact that the rest in the shade implies that Christians will place their faith in these false teachers instead of the Word of God written in scripture (remember "I am the light of the world"). The Bible also symbolises the light - so everything that you are taught must be tested against scripture. If you are not testing new doctrines against scripture to see if they are heresies or not then you are living "in the shade". Study (2 Peter 2:1 and 1 Timothy 1:3 and 1 Timothy 6:3)

Note also the thickest branches would be attractive for the most birds and the biggest birds ;) So mainstream churches need to constantly guard against heresies. Note that these birds make the most noise chirping away to bring attention to themselves and peck away at the seeds, which symbolises the true Word of God and literally turn the Word of God and the truth into bird-!

You can spot the "fowl' workers of iniquity and the bird- today.
Just a few examples...
You have a license to sin, all will be forgiven...
God approves of gay marriages...
Some of the armeggedon prophecies are out of this world...
(You can add your own list)

[arcura]

Johnstma,
That's very interesting.
I see it much differently.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[johnstma]

Matthew 13:24 is known as the parable of the tares of the field of wheat. The NIV uses the word "weeds" which loses the impact of the word "tares" used in the KJV which a special kind of weed. A tare is a weed which looks almost the same as wheat.

Many of the parables end with separating the goats from the sheep, the tares from the wheat, hauling up the nets and sorting out the fish, tossing the bad ones back. Jesus Christ could have used lobsters and crabs as those creatures that get thrown back, as those are more of an abomination to Jews than fish that do not taste that good or are a poor quality. Jesus Christ could have used pigs and sheep, as a pig is an unclean animal in Judaism, why did he use goats? He could have used brambles or thorn bushes instead of tares and wheat, why did he use tares?

Goats run with the sheep in a herd, and look similar from a distance. The goat which symbolises sin, is also a more aggressive creature than the passive sheep. At first glance the tare looks amazingly similar to wheat, until you bite into it and it tastes terrible. It is very difficult to discern which plant is wheat and which is tare until the plants form mature seed heads. During fanning, the seeds are tossed into the air and the tare seeds blow away. Afterwards, the seeds are shaken through sieves which allows the smaller tare seeds to fall through eliminating any tares the wind might have missed Jesus Christ (alluding to sore trials and temptations?). Tare seeds often contain harmful fungus growths that make people sick and may kill an animal or person who eats enough (spread false doctrines and/or harm others physically?). Then it struck me that the reason Jesus Christ used examples which are similar but do not make the grade, rather than those which are a total abomination, is that in each case he was talking about hypocrisy - Christians hypocrites, who say they have faith and believe, but do not act in accordance in any of G-d's commands. In fact it is said in the NT "blessed are they WHO HEAR the word of G-d, and OBEY IT"... key words... HEAR... OBEY.

In two other parables, put side by side, actually expands what makes a tare and wheat, a goat from a sheep. It is in black and white which no Christian can deny on the Day of Judgment - I will explain it to all of you with the interpretation in brackets:

Matthew 24:48... But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, 'My master is staying away a long time,' (2000 years waiting for the Messiah) and he then begins to beat his fellow servants (persecute other Christians and Jews and wage wars of nationalism/tribalism/colonialism against fellow Christians) and to eat and drink with drunkards (incorporate false doctrines, heresies, paganism and false teachings etc). The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of (nobody know with absolute certainty when the Messiah will return). He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

So these parables all warn against hypocrisy - pretending to be like a Christian, but not behaving in a manner expected of a Christian, justifying ones sinful behaviour via false values, false teachings and false doctrines etc.

[arcura]

johnstma,
Thank you for that very interesting post.
Your comparisons are very good.
Peace and kindness.
Fred

[Choux]

Parables are extended metaphors... the best way to convey a SPIRITUAL message which is an abstract thought... in symbolic language as we see in your posting, Fred.

I enjoy figuring out parables... they are the real teachings along with the Beautitudes of the man called Jesus, and they are wonderful.

I will be happy to give my opinion on any of their meanings if you ask. :)

[arcura]

Choux,
Thanks.
Sure, give us your meaning.
Fred