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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 01:01 PM
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Well it was Jehova and he was speaking to the few little remnent of Jews that called upon his name. BUT this side of the cross, we can see that it is the LORD and that we are his jewels.
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 01:40 PM
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 Originally Posted by classyT
Well it was Jehova and he was speaking to the few little remnent of Jews that called upon his name. BUT this side of the cross, we can see that it is the LORD and that we are his jewels.
Yes them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon His name are His peculair treasure. Such as refer in Deuteronomy 7:6 For thou art an holy people unto the LORD thy God: the LORD thy God hath chosen thee to be a special people unto himself, above all people that are upon the face of the earth.
And Here who does baptism save?
1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 01:59 PM
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It is spirtual, spirtual, spirtual... if you want to get techinical... those eight souls were never immersed so it wasn't even a picture of water baptism... Jesus is the ARK that is what SAVED them. By the way and I was SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise.. when? I believe Paul says after I BELIEVED... (not a word about baptism) Eph 1:13
And Peter isn't giving the plan of salvation there not at all.. put the verse into context. He is talking about Christ going to preach to the spirits in prison.
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 02:39 PM
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Sndby,
Yes the judge will be the one.
I wonder if he will ask this, "You say that you believe me, then why were you not baptized?
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 02:47 PM
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classyT
I do believe that baptism IS necessary for salvation.
I hope you have been baptized.
Fred
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 02:50 PM
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 Originally Posted by arcura
sndby,
Yes the judge will be the one.
I wonder if he will ask this, "You say that you believe me, then why were you not baptized?
Peace and kindness,
Fred
Right Fred, it might not be just like that but something of that nature. Like we have been discussing about garments of white linen and attending the wedding. Do you think someone that neglected to be baptized will be naked because of the lack of knowledge? or cloth in whte line for their righteousness?
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 03:07 PM
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 Originally Posted by classyT
It is spirtual, spirtual, spirtual...if ya want to get techinical...those eight souls were never immersed so it wasn't even a picture of water baptism...Jesus is the ARK that is what SAVED them. by the way and I was SEALED with the Holy Spirit of promise ..when? I believe Paul says after i BELIEVED...(not a word about baptism) Eph 1:13
And Peter isn't giving the plan of salvation there not at all..put the verse into context. He is talking about Christ going to preach to the spirits in prison.
In Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Noticed trusted after hearing word of truth... and gospel of salvation... That does mean who hold knowledge of the Will of God. And after you believe... that is the witness of the only allowance of baptism when you can say you believe as written in Acts 8:36-37.. you are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise [/COLOR ]( a gift refer: John 16:13)
Yet I disagree with you post on 1 Peter 3 .
It does simply imply baptism is in like figure to the flood a putting away of the filth of the flesh..
1 Peter 3:22 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
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New Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 03:31 PM
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My dear Christian friends, as I watch this debate I am reminded of a servant of God by the name of Job. This man had three friends who by all rights were the top Biblical Scholars of their day.
These three men had expanded their minds through intense study of the Word of God but they were unable to comprehend the spiritual nature of the matter at hand. Oh, they knew the written Word as is evidenced by the words of their mouth, but they lacked one thing, spiritual understanding.
Spiritual understanding does not come through the expansion of the mind through learning, it comes only one way, through a relationship with the author, the Holy Spirit.
In ending I will simply ask, if Salvation is dependent upon water baptism why did Paul not know this?
1Co 1:14 I thank God that I baptized none of you, but Crispus and Gaius;
1Co 1:15 Lest any should say that I had baptized in mine own name.
1Co 1:16 And I baptized also the household of Stephanas: besides, I know not whether I baptized any other.
1Co 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect.
1Co 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.
1Co 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1Co 1:20 Where is the wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the disputer of this world? Hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1Co 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 04:49 PM
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Jesus is Lord,
You know... I agree with you whole heartedly and I was reluncted to get in this debate. I have been here before and it is futal. I know better than to take the bait. Ugh.
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 04:50 PM
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Acura,
My Lord and Savior Jesus Christ asked me to get baptized so yes... sir, to answer your question, I have been baptized and I went understanding why I was being baptized. But not one thing in the act of baptism saved me. His shed blood on the cross did the work.
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 04:56 PM
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 Originally Posted by sndbay
In Eph 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Noticed trusted after hearing word of truth... and gospel of salvation... That does mean who hold knowledge of the Will of God. And after you believe... that is the witness of the only allowance of baptism when you can say you believe as written in Acts 8:36-37.. you are sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise [/COLOR]( a gift refer: John 16:13)
Yet I disagree with you post on 1 Peter 3 .
It does simply imply baptism is in like figure to the flood a putting away of the filth of the flesh..
1 Peter 3:22 The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ
You are twisting this to fit your baptism theory. The gospel of my salvation was laid out in Romans... It is by believing the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. AFTER I Believed this.. I was sealed... now it doesn't say after you BELIEVED and were baptized you were sealed. Just believed.
Incidentally did you see the verses that Jesus is lord listed... I especially like the one where Paul says he didn't come to baptize but to preach the gospel. That is a pretty darn bold statement to make when according you YOU baptism is a requirement. If this were true, he would have NEVER said such a thing... NEVER!
Once again SND, we will have to agree to disagree. I told Acura early I wasn't going to change his mind... and he wouldn't change mine. But I like a healthy debate as much as anyone. And I mean this... if I offended you with the kind of garbage statement.. please know I didn't intend to be mean. I was being flip but not unkind. :)
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 05:38 PM
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ClassyT,
I believe that baptism washes way sin, particularly the original sin we are born with.
That is why baptism is necessary for salvation.
I'm happy to hear that you were baptized.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 07:22 PM
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Acura,
I am reminded of an old Sunday school song... What can wash away my sin? Nothing but the blood of Jesus. What can make me whole again.. nothing but the blood of Jesus. Oh precious is the flow that makes me white as snow... no other fount I know... nothing but the blood of Jesus.
... the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanses us from ALL sin 1 John 1:7
what a savior! :)
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 08:51 PM
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classyT,
Yes, what a savior who would go through what he did and teach us by both word and example.
Fred
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Full Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 09:31 PM
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1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Those people were baptized in the cloud and in the sea and don't think that they were not baptized in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holly Spirit , because they were baptized IN THE CLOUD which is GOD , But with many of them God was not well pleased...
If even now someone thinks that salvation has to do with being baptized , then it's not because it is not clear in the Scriptures!
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Ultra Member
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Oct 14, 2008, 10:19 PM
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adam7gur,
I think it is clear in the gospels.
It is a sacrament instituted by Jesus Christ.
He set the example by being baptized.
He told His followers to go out into the world and baptize people and how to do it.
I'll go along with what Christ said.
Peace and kindness,
Fred
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Ultra Member
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Oct 15, 2008, 05:07 AM
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 Originally Posted by adam7gur
1 Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea;
2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;
3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat;
4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
5 But with many of them God was not well pleased: for they were overthrown in the wilderness.
Those people were baptized in the cloud and in the sea and don't think that they were not baptized in the name of Jesus or in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holly Spirit , because they were baptized IN THE CLOUD which is GOD , But with many of them God was not well pleased...
If even now someone thinks that salvation has to do with being baptized , then it's not because it is not clear in the Scriptures!
Adam7,
I appreciate your scripture and I agree with you! But trust me on this... you won't convience anyone that wants to believe it. I have had this debate since I was about 22. I REALLY looked into it because I thought perhaps they had a point. I am 47... I have studied and studied for the answer.. I have prayed.. I have read books... and have consulted the Bible... it is clear as crystal... Jesus said it best... IT IS FINISHED!
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Ultra Member
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Oct 15, 2008, 05:12 AM
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Acura,
Yes, Jesus was baptized! He wasn't baptized for the same reason! NO WAY!. it was all about the KINGDOM of GOD! Not about his death, burial and resurrection. Oh my golly, don't you know John the Baptist wasn't baptizing the way we do now? HELLO? Jesus hadn't died.. he hadn't risen? Not the same type of baptism AT ALL!
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Expert
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Oct 15, 2008, 05:20 AM
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And I will challenge you that when Jesus was baptised, there is not a single Christian church that would accept a baptism done exactly like Jesus.
Since he was not baptised in the name of Jesus or /either in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
A baptism done by John would not be by church rules a valid baptism in today's churches,
Most would require Jesus to be baptised again to become a member.
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Ultra Member
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Oct 15, 2008, 08:01 AM
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The choice that I make of my heart, mind, and soul is to be a doer of the Word. Not just one scripture that is written but all that is written. Believing in the Truth of Our Father, The Word, and Spirit as ONE, whom all have witnessed. Your walk is your choice!
Refer:
John 3:11 Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness
James 1:22 But be ye [doers of the word], and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves
Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
Romans 6:4 Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans6:5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also [in the likeness] of [His] resurrection
Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
1 Peter 1:22 Seeing ye have purified your souls in obeying the truth through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, [see that ye] love one another with a pure heart fervently
1 Peter 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
John 3: 5-6 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water(woman) and of the Spirit (gift), he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
John 3:21-22 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
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