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arcura · Oct 12, 2008, 08:38 PM

Classyt,
The bible says that we must be baptized to be saved.
Mark 16:16. Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved; whoever does not believe will be condemned.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 08:47 PM

Ahhh Fred... I like you and I hate to argue with you especially when you always say peace and Kindness.. lol. Tell you what. I disagree with you and I will just ask this... WHO is JESUS talking to? When you read the word you have to know who is speaking and

Who the writer is speaking TO. The Word is for us all but it isn't directly written to us. Jesus is talking to the Jews... Peter in Acts is talking to the Jews.. BOTH were before the Church was even started. THe church was still a mystery. IF you wanted know about salvation... go to Paul's epistles...

Peace, grace, kindess, love, and above ALL... learning to rightly divide the word of truth,

Tess

classyT · Oct 12, 2008, 08:50 PM

Jesus is Lord,

I hope you haven't changed your opinion.

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 08:50 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

We can say yes or no....WHOSOEVER WILL MAY COME....you have a choice..we all have a choice.

Only to say no.

Wondergirl · Oct 12, 2008, 08:57 PM

Originally Posted by jesus-is-lord

The Pew Forum Survey is on this exact topic. 2/3rds. of main stream Christianity has now changed their opinion about Jesus being the only way to Salvation. I wrote the following press release at prlog.

Pew Forum Survey

You can find the Pew Forum Survey Here. Pew Forum Survey

That site needs a proofreader or two who knows grammar and spelling. It's too bad something like that spoils any information for someone who is searching.

jesus-is-lord · Oct 12, 2008, 09:28 PM

Originally Posted by classyT

Jesus is Lord,

I hope you haven't changed your opinion.

Hello classyT,

God bless you. He is my life, I am consumed by his presence. I will run this race by the power of his grace until the day they slay me. Php 1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.

Amen.

arcura · Oct 12, 2008, 10:40 PM

classyT,
Please note that the book of Mark was written AFTER the church was started.
The book of Acts is all about The Church after Christ was crucified.
Note how many times The Church was mentioned in the New Testament.
There should be no doubt that Baptism is a necessity for salvation.
According to The Church that includes someone who intended to be baptized by died before it could be done.
So we disagree. That is not unusual.
There are over 30,000 different denominations which disagree with each other on some things.
Peace, kindness, and love,
Fred

classyT · Oct 13, 2008, 05:56 AM

Acura,

It is wrong to add anything to the Work on the cross... I believe Jesus said it best... IT IS FINISHED.

Of course one should be baptized after salvation but as far as a requirement... once again that places responsibility on man. I have never known anyone that could baptize themselves.
I don't understand your statement... "according to the Church". According to WHAT CHURCH?

My friend you can't pull verses out of context and no scripture is of private interrupertation. Paul lays salvation out in the book of Romans.. and baptism is not a requirement.

But we can agree to disagree. I have never changed anyone's mind on this subject and I have an idea that I won't be changing yours.

Tess

Athos · Oct 13, 2008, 09:38 AM

Originally Posted by jesus-is-lord

The Pew Forum Survey is on this exact topic. 2/3rds. of main stream Christianity has now changed their opinion about Jesus being the only way to Salvation. I wrote the following press release at prlog.

Pew Forum Survey

You can find the Pew Forum Survey Here. Pew Forum Survey

Thanks for this post, Jesus-Is-Lord. It directly answers my question. Note that the first link goes to what is apparently your own webpage, and the second to the actual PEW survey, which is very interesting. I mention this because both links have the same wording but point to two different locations.

jesus-is-lord · Oct 13, 2008, 10:35 AM

Originally Posted by Athos

Thanks for this post, Jesus-Is-Lord. It directly answers my question. Note that the first link goes to what is apparently your own webpage, and the second to the actual PEW survey, which is very interesting. I mention this because both links have the same wording but point to two different locations.

WOOPS! I didn't notice that, sorry for the confusion guys.

arcura · Oct 13, 2008, 05:44 PM

classyT
I'm sorry but...
I DID NOT add anything to scripture which is CLEAR that baptize is needed for salvation.
The Church is the one Jesus founded.
It exised for many centuries before the reformation when other chirches cam into being.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

DrJ · Oct 13, 2008, 06:04 PM

Acura,

Are you basing your claim about Baptism being a necessity for Salvation solely on Mark 16:16?

I don't see how anyone can take that verse to mean that without Baptism, you will not be saved.

Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved (ok so this may be true but it does not say ONLY those who believe and are baptzed); whoever does not believe will be condemned (ok, again this may be true but it doesn't say anything about whoever does not get baptized).

classyT · Oct 13, 2008, 06:40 PM

Acura,

I did not accuse you of adding anything to the scriptures. The Bible is my only and final authority. That is my only point. I do not wish to argue over baptisim. I won't change your mind and you won't change mine. :)

classyT · Oct 14, 2008, 05:45 AM

Acura,

One last thought.. there is much we do agree on! I like to concentrate on that. I think you are a smart guy and you do know the word. That is a BIG deal in Christendom today. ( I think) :)

adam7gur · Oct 14, 2008, 06:05 AM

Well here's a question!
Was the criminal that was crusified with Jesus baptized? I don't think so ! But our Lord Himself says to him that he will be together with Him in Paradise!Was he baptized? No . Was he saved? Yes ! Isn't that antiphatic?Let us ask ourselves from what are we saved if we believe and are baptized?? I think that we are all missing things here , so let's be quiet about this unless if someone here KNOWS !

classyT · Oct 14, 2008, 06:18 AM

Adam7gur,

I appreciate your comment and I agree whole heartly with you. But I have debated this with the best of them and I already KNOW the response. First they say... well Jesus hadn't died yet so techinically it didn't count. (ok, they have a point) THEN they say, and he was GOD so he could do what he wanted... NO! He will always stay true to his WORD... that is a LAME point.

It is CLEAR as CRYSTAL to me.. that salvation HAS NOTHING to do with Baptism... I think one SHOULD be baptized in obedience to the Lord. I think it should be after salvation and when one understands what it means. I believe that is what scripture teaches.. but I have gone round and round on this subject and I find.. it AIN"T worth it. I'm not going to argue something that is as plain as the nose on my face... if they want to add baptism to salvation.. let them. They are WRONG but I am sure I am wrong at times... funny I just can't figure out where. LOL that was a JOKE for all those that have NO SENSE OF HUMOR... :)

sndbay · Oct 14, 2008, 06:38 AM

Originally Posted by classyT

Paul lays salvation out in the book of Romans..and baptism is not a requirement.

Tess

Even Christ who was not blood only but by water..
1 John 5: 6 This is he that came by water and blood, [even] Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.

We are to walk with Christ right? Follow His lead?

It is written that the trinity of three witness baptism.
1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one..

Would you deny the Holy Ghost?

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

The individual becomes a servant of righteousness when baptized. This means the individual begins the web of a garment in faith. This is a judgement in the final book of life. The water destroys evil that causes sin.
1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Essential to Salvation as a Servant
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Again do you walk in Christ?
Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

sndbay · Oct 14, 2008, 07:14 AM

Originally Posted by DrJizzle

Acura,

Are you basing your claim about Baptism being a necessity for Salvation solely on Mark 16:16?

I don't see how anyone can take that verse to mean that without Baptism, you will not be saved.

There is a certainity in knowing double minded thought within the heart and mind of an individual is known by God and can not be masked. Choice to follow has to be clearly done and one's faith in Christ leads the way to walk in Him. So whether you choose to be obedent to the Father, to do what is written on all levels of righteousness, and without doubt, will be known by Christ on judgement day.

Note what is written and ask yourself, Does a child tell his father or brothers and sisters what will be ?
Truth is in listen to God, hearing His voice. There is none other to follow, or hear. May God's Will be done on earth as it is in heaven.. (John 10:27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.)

Mark 10:15 Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein.

Matthew 18:1-3 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven? And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the Kingdom of Heaven.

Christ is the Light.. The light of the lamp which is the law.. Obedience to what Our Father has written and walk in the light...

classyT · Oct 14, 2008, 07:15 AM

Ok... look sndbay, I could go through every one... I know the scripture you all pull out and I have been through it a MILLION times. I'm not going down this path.. I believe you are wrong..

Quicky... Peter is talking to the JEWS... the church isn't even something he knows anything about.. not talking to the CHURCH.. the JEWS.. yes they needed to get baptized... the plan of salvation wasn't really revealed until Paul.

In Galatians... Paul is speaking of a SPIRITUAL baptism.. UGH!

You know Paul even says in one of his epistles that he can't remember who he baptized.. he knew he baptized a family and a few others but you know.. he couldn't recall how many!. if that was a requirement for salvation.. he wouldn't have mentioned it in that way. For example.. he wouldn't have said there was a few in this household that believed and a few here and there and as far as any one else.. you know I just don't recall...

OK.. Mark... Jesus is speaking.. he was talking to WHO? Oh yes the JEWS! They needed to be baptized in his name.. they were jews following the law that he came and fulfilled. Yes, when the JEWS got baptized back then.. it was a BIG DEAL! They were denouncing everything that had every been taught to them. Same as when Peter spoke to the 3000.

I have no clue what you are talking about in 1 John... that isn't about water baptism.. of that I can assure you!

I noticed you didn't pull out any verses about baptism in the book of Romans which explains salvation... faith plus nothing.

To require ME to do ANYTHING other than accept is an insult to my LORD. He DIED, HE ROSE again... He said "it is finished" I'm asked to receive this good news by faith. Then because I have received it.. get baptized because it is an outward showing of the inward change... nothing more.. nothing less. But it should be done... not because it is part of the plan of salvation but because the Lord ask us to.

Darn, I didn't mean to go on and on... we will agree to disagree.. once again.

sndbay · Oct 14, 2008, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by adam7gur

Well here's a question!
Was the criminal that was crusified with Jesus baptized? I don't think so ! But our Lord Himself says to him that he will be together with Him in Paradise!Was he baptized? No . Was he saved? Yes ! Isn't that antiphatic?Let us ask ourselves from what are we saved if we believe and are baptized???I think that we are all missing things here , so let's be quiet about this unless if someone here KNOWS !

Who is the JUDGE ? we know the answer to that..

Who knows what is in the heart, and mind of each? we know the answer to that..

1 Peter 3:20-21 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.The like figure whereunto [even] baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:

Who now can say Baptism does not save us? The JUDGE and HIM alone.