[asking]

1. Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually girlfriends or spouse/boyfriend are for the rest.

Hey, Ash,
Would you say the same in reverse?
In other words, would you agree with this?

1. Men can have gal friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Men should not usually make plans with women for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually male friends or spouse/girlfriend are for the rest.

I'm curious, because I've had partners who very much felt it was fine for men to spend alone time with other women colleagues or "friends." But they would not have thought if fine for me to go out alone with a man. They would say, "That's different." Do you think it's different too?

[Dragonfly1234]

Hey RF,

Congrats on your engagement. If she is the one I wouldn't give it a second thought.

If she is still in the proving grounds, you can ponder below:

I have seen in all sorts of co-worker over the line situations and here's some thoughts:

1. Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually girlfriends or spouse/boyfriend are for the rest.
3. The fact that you do not want YOUR personal history to repeat (meet at work) is a normal reaction. But hey, you had to meet somewhere. So, if she didn't cheat to start I see nothing there to sweat.
4. IT people are like any people....work some. play some. kill time some. there will be co-workers and such but as long as she is crazy about you, they are just wallpaper.

Did I miss something else? Any doubts?

I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you. "Women can have guy friends at work. But not so much after work"? "Women should not usually make plans with men for anything but group activities"? What? Why not? I have tons of guy friends, and I mean more guy friends than girl friends. If my husband asked me to obide by the above rules, I would be miserable. Are you saying that none of us can exercise enough self-control to be left alone with the opposite sex? I may be interpreting this wrong and if I am I apologize but your post seems to be something out of the 1950's... I would love if you elaborate more on this.

[Ash123]

Ok, I have generated a bit of excitement and that is good.

Let me expound just a bit :-)

The He or she is not a big difference, but I do think the choices can be red flags.

I have seen a fair bit of broken marriages. And office romances. And one thing they tend to have in common: woman who have developed guy friends as a slow surrogate for what's missing at home.

Now, that said, IF the woman (i.e. happily married) is going out after work with guys to chat, laugh etc before going home, super. What I am getting at is if there is weakness in a bond, I think the man/woman friendship is a canary in the coal mine.

It is NOT because the woman cannot control herself :-) It is because it is often a sign of something elsewhere. Call me crazy but a woman's confidante is best when it's her husband. I cannot tell you how many times I've seen people that are "just friends" that develops. Why? The woman is seeking a bond elsewhere.

Of course, a happily married couple can navigate this easily. They trust each other and she is just having fun. Or he is just having a laugh.

But I still contend that if you want to reach your wife about a question with the kids, and she can't because she is at a bar with Frank, that is not ideal.

[asking]

Since you didn't answer my question,should I assume you would NOT apply these rules to men?

[Ash123]

Hey, Ash,
Would you say the same in reverse?
In other words, would you agree with this?

1. Men can have gal friends at work. But not so much after work.
2. Men should not usually make plans with women for anything but group activities. There ARE work related exceptions, but usually male friends or spouse/girlfriend are for the rest.

I'm curious, because I've had partners who very much felt it was fine for men to spend alone time with other women colleagues or "friends." But they would not have thought if fine for me to go out alone with a man. They would say, "That's different." Do you think it's different too?

See above answer as well.

1./2. I think it is the same. It goes both ways-but every case is different.

If a double standard exists, and I am thinking about your situation, it may be because:
- (I am generalizing now) he may feel women often confide in other women. And when they confide in a man it may be preceived as more of a statement.

For the record: I am in a longterm relationship and my GF and I have gone out with the opposite sex after work - generally in groups.

Basic communication and respect are in the end are key and sort out all this. And different strokes for different folks.

Any good devoted relationship would not lose much sleep with any of this.

[Dragonfly1234]

Ok... I agree.

But, again this goes back to how things are at home. If a friendship with someone from the opposite sex develops because of something lacking at home, the problem isn't the actual friendship, the problem is the relationship with the significant other.

And I'm sure you would agree if I was to say that if someone feels they have needs that are not being met and this leads them to cheating, they can cheat with or without a friendship with someone from the opposite sex. Hell, the person can have a one night stand with a complete stranger. Again, the problem is not so much related to a friendship.

That said, I do agree that in many cases those types of friendships develop into an emotional bond as a result of problems with the current relationship. This happens a lot. But if someone just happens to have more things in common with people from the opposite sex, whether a friendship can take place shouldn't be an issue if there is no reason to doubt your partner.

And if whoever is trying to reach their wife about a question regarding the kids, you're right that it's not ideal but not because she is at the bar with Frank rather than Nancy...

[Ash123]

Dragonfly,
I think you would agree that you are attracted to other men sometimes.
After 8 years the old mind might wander innocently here and there.
Still, I realize you have a lot of guy friends and that is who you are...
And you are happily married.

But if you were unhappy and vulnerable, the game would be different.

Which leads me here:

Having a member of the same sex as a confidante when life stresses occur, has some practical advantages to it. Leaning on the wrong opposite sex shoulder too many times... well, all I can say is I've seen it... not to me personally, but it has been a part of 3-4 divorces at last count. It is certainly provocative and worth debate, but I am just telling you what I've seen.

Bottom line: a good relationship is full of communication and respect and you could go to Egypt with another guy if your relationship was built for it.

[talaniman]

Isn't something like boundaries, and rules of conduct, something you talk about before a commitment?? Yeah, okay my age is showing, but that's the kind of thing to discuss before even moving in with someone, isn't it?

Geez, what do you young folks talk about after you get serious??

[Ash123]

I agree.

I have seen so many relationships go south when either man or woman thinks boundaries are superfluous to happiness.

Relationships need a little compromise and yes, a little sacrifice to work.

[Romefalls19]

Tal is right, boundaries are definitely some things you set before you commit. I sure hope no one is getting the impression that this is my problem, the whole trust issue. My friend seems like he has the trust issue because he was pointing out reasons he shouldn't trust his girlfriend at her job and then we were discussing my fiance's new job and he was asking how I could trust her.

Ash, first let me thank you on your congratulations! I agree with your points about friends at work and hanging out outside of work with groups. I do have female friends at work and sometimes go out to the bar on a Friday after work, but it's always in groups and my fiancé even talks to the one girl who I am better friends with.

The whole debate really comes down to trusting your partner. And like I told my friend, my fiancé has given me no reason not to trust her or has she even acted remotely interested in another guy.

[Ash123]

Psyched for you man. Happiness is the goal.. To love and be loved is ALL anyone on this forum wants. Sure, life is never 100% simple but glad for your foundation is there and that u both have trust and respect. And If you run into any headaches the AMHD door is always open. Peace A

[Romefalls19]

Yep, this forum has given me so many tools to use in my relationship! And I know if I ever need a swift kick in the arse several people on here will be happy to oblige with that ha ha

[asking]

1./2. I think it is the same.

Okay. :)

If a double standard exists, and I am thinking about your situation, it may be because:
- (I am generalizing now) he may feel women often confide in other women. And when they confide in a man it may be preceived as more of a statement.

Right. I think I've heard this argument in some form.

So I think men should learn to be better friends to one another.

Or else, more women should have the kinds of freedoms Dragonfly has. I just met someone else like her. Her husband says to me that all her friends are men and she doesn't really like women. (I wasn't sure how to react to that, like--don't even bother trying to be friends with her? :))

I have some men friends, but I always feel like they are a Problem when I am in a Relationship. My ex husband was wildly jealous from the very beginning and would become anxious if I even talked to a man at a party. He would actually come up and find an excuse to stop the conversation. I didn't realize this was happening for a long time, until my neighbor's husband said, "X never lets me talk to you." And it hit me that X didn't let me talk to ANY men. So maybe I've become sensitized.

Still, my experience is that men generally (not all) tend to view other men with a lot more suspicion, while insisting on their own innocent relationships with women. I guess I've become cynical. Also, I'm older so I'm talking about my generation mainly.

It may be that younger men and women have more friends of both sexes. My impression from reading this list is that this is both wonderful and dangerous.

For the record: I am in a longterm relationship and my GF and I have gone out with the opposite sex after work - generally in groups.

You say "generally." So, when you went out with members of the opposite sex after work not in groups (just you and one woman), was that you only or has your GF also done the same?

Any good devoted relationship would not lose much sleep with any of this.

Agreed. The couple I know who seem happiest, the wife has lots of male friends and the husband seems fine with that. I don't think he goes out by himself with women though. And her male friends live far away and mostly they email or talk on the phone. I know her well and I would trust her completely, so not surprised he does. But again, it appears to me to be one-sided. I never hear about him having women friends particularly. He seems very devoted and involved with his work, his family, and her family and friends.

[Ash123]

I hear you.

I think your ex was not respectful and had a double standard - from what little I recall... Ugh.

We could debate this all day, but I do think that there are boundaries that are unspoken and any side that abuses it is asking for trouble.