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Stubits · Sep 15, 2008, 08:47 AM

We would like to upgrade the electrical system in our home, but I have a couple of questions as we start the process.

We have a 150 AMP panel in our home (brand new, installed by the previous owners just before we bought the home), I'd say there are about 5-6 open posts. The electrical service wire, that runs from the top of the house to the meter and then into the home is VERY VERY old, it is small compared to what is being used today and the insulation is very worn. In fact, we are upgrading/replacing the service more for safety than for increases electrical power. We have had no problems at all with electricity in the house.

So, this doesn't sound like a typical "heavy up" in the sense that we already have a 150AMP panel, fully functioning electrical, etc. Mostly, we are looking just to replace the meter box and the service entrance wire. Is there anything else I should be thinking about? I think the service from the light post to the house was already upgraded when my neighbor upgraded his (we live in a DC rowhouse and it seems like there is one wire running from the pole to our house where is splits to his and ours).

Any idea what something like this involves? How much would something like this cost?

Thanks!

hkstroud · Sep 15, 2008, 09:02 AM

The cable from the top of the house to the meter belongs to the power company. The cable from the meter to the service panel belongs to you. You may be able to get the power company to replace the cable from the weather head at the top of the house to meter if the power company determines that it is unsafe. Get quotes from licenced electrician to determine the cost of replacing the service entrance cable from meter to panel.

rtw_travel · Sep 15, 2008, 12:50 PM

Interesting, Harold. Another difference. In Canada, homeowners are responsible for both the meter base and the supply wires all the way up the mast. The utility installs the meter and connects the wires from the mast to nearby pole.

Stubits · Sep 15, 2008, 12:51 PM

RTW-

That is actually how things work here in Washington, DC as well, unfortunately.

stanfortyman · Sep 15, 2008, 12:51 PM

Just a note. I see you are in DC and Harold is in Va. so his advice is probably correct for your area.
In most parts of the country though, the cable from the power company taps at the top of the house, down to the meter pan, and then down into the house, including the meter pan itself, are all customer owned and maintained.
Typically the power company owns/maintains the overhead drop to the house and that's it.

It seems as if your house simply had a panel change. NOT a service upgrade.

stanfortyman · Sep 15, 2008, 12:53 PM

So Stubits, you are saying it is like RTW and I describe? Or as Harold describes?

hkstroud · Sep 15, 2008, 01:26 PM

A call to Potomac Electric confirms my statement. Everything down to the meter base belongs to Potomac Electric and would be their repair.

stanfortyman · Sep 15, 2008, 02:11 PM

Harold, please don't think I was questioning you. I'm sure you are correct. It's just this is pretty uncommon, although I have heard of it in some areas.
We were just seeing if is it also true in DC.

Does Potomac Electric cover the DC area?

Stratmando · Sep 15, 2008, 02:15 PM

Down here in Florida, Electrician does the Meter Can, Riser and Wiring. The Electric COOP would provide the meter can(which is good/spare parts easier than MANY different Meter cans).
Last I heard, I got one of the Last Cans, and Electrical Contractor is to provide in the future. Haven't needed one lately, but have to check current method?

hkstroud · Sep 15, 2008, 02:26 PM

No problem Stan. Knowing that things are different in different locations, I should have checked before I posted. Especially since Potomac Electric was sold (and the citizens sold out) about a year ago by the politicians . Potomac Electric Co (PEPCO) serves Maryland and DC, Virginia Dominion serves VA. Same thing going to happens to us in a couple of years.

Stubits · Sep 16, 2008, 07:52 AM

Harold:

That's fascinating. I guess I should have called PEPCO myself. I found some info on the website that indicated that they were not responsible. So, just to confirm, PEPCO is responsible for the cable running from the street to the top of the house and then from weather head down to the meter box? I'd be responsible for upgrading the weather head, the meter pan and then of course the cable from the meter to the panel, right?

That's great news I think.

Stan- can you provide some additional info? A service upgrade includes changing the panel as well as the service entrance cable, correct? If I am going to go through with this, does it make sense to move up to 200amps or stick with 150 since that's what I have right now?

Stratmando · Sep 16, 2008, 08:07 AM

Til Stan gets here, I would go 200 Amps, To upgrade in the future would be more of an expense, and may have a difficulty upgrading later.

Stubits · Sep 16, 2008, 08:12 AM

So, this is a very novice question, but what exactly is involved in the service upgrade? Effectively the electrician will change out the cable, the meter pan and the panel? Obviously in coordination with the electric company, but is that the boiled down version of the upgrade?

KISS · Sep 16, 2008, 09:44 AM

The electric company may have to change the transformer servicing your property as well.

Any problems with the current install may have to be corrected such as overloaded circuits, GFCI breakers and AFCI breakers where required.

In most cases, the change will be co-ordinated. Permits will need to be pulled and the work inspected.

hkstroud · Sep 16, 2008, 10:57 AM

Stubits
Here is what I was told by customers services. Pepco responsible for everything down to and including meter base. I doubt that you have a weather head, wouldn't unless you have conduit from roof to meter, which you must not have, because you are concerned about condition of cable. If it were in conduit you wouldn't be able to see it.

If you have 150 amps to a row house I wouldn't think you would need to increase service. Size of service is determined by size of house.

The way it's done with Virginia Power is (at least the last time I did it, which has been some time).
You get permit to heavy up. Go to power company, they give you meter base. You have power company cut or remove meter seal. You mount new base along side of old base (or pull old one off wall and move to one side). You remove meter, remove service entrance cable from panel, run new service entrance cable from new base to panel, run old service entrance cable to new meter base, put in jumper across new meter base, put meter back in old meter base and call inspector. Inspector calls power company to move service drop to new meter base. Power company won't talk to you about moving service drop, only inspector.

Stubits · Sep 16, 2008, 11:24 AM

Harold:

Maybe you can help me explain this better to PEPCO. I just got off the phone with them and they indicated that it is the homeowner's responsibility. Your version seems to make more sense, but I am at a loss as to how to explain that to them. It didn't help that the young lady I spoke to knew even less than I do about all of this.

So far as I can tell from looking at my house, there are the following parts:

1) Overhead cable running from the light pole to the house
2) Some form of a mast, definitely not a weather head, where the overhead wire connects to a larger insulated cable running down my house
3) Larger insulated cable running down side of home
4) Meter and meter pan
5) Larger insulated cable running from meter pan into the side of the house to the electrical panel

The individual I spoke to said they are only responsible for the cable running from the street to the mast, but that seems contradictory to your findings.

Any ideas or advice on how I can better explain this to these folks?

Thanks!

hkstroud · Sep 16, 2008, 01:02 PM

Contradicts what I was told. Service entrance cable is the cable from meter to inside of house. I specifically ask who was responsible to meter. Was told PEPCO
Suggest you call customer service and tell them you are concerned about condition of cable going from pole to meter and would like service man to look at it. Service man will know what they are responsible for. However, what you are seeing is probably only cracked or weathered sheathing of cable, not actual insulation of cables.

Unfortunately today you don't know whether to believe the person on the other end of the phone regardless of what you are told.

Sometimes the attitude of the other person determines what is done. One of my neighbors wanted overhead cable put underground. Power company will only do that if you are upgrading service or putting in new service. She called power company, they sent service man out. He explained the rules, but then "thought he saw sparks". New under ground service was installed.

Stubits · Sep 16, 2008, 01:10 PM

Harold:

Thanks a ton, might be a problem with language, as she referred to the whole thing as the service entrance cable. Really great advice, I will call back and explain that the problem is with the wire coming from the pole to the meter.

As for the current status of the cable, I had two different home inspectors suggest that it get changed out. The insulation is entirely worn off the "cable" and I can clearly see the wires underneath.

Maybe you folks can answer another question for me. We have been generally unimpressed by the quality of the work done by the former owner/flipper. We are happy with the house and don't regret the purchase, but still... The panel was previously 100AMP, they upgraded the panel itself to 150AMP without touching any of the cables outside. What good did this do or none at all? Is it still effectively 100 AMP service? Or do I really have access to 150 AMPs? We have had no problems at all with our electricity.

Thanks!

Stubits · Sep 16, 2008, 01:19 PM

Harold:

If you wouldn't mind, can you take a look at the left sidebar in this PEPCO newsletter from 2007?

How does this jive with what we've heard?

Thanks!

http://www.pepco.com/_res/documents/linesdcmay07.pdf

hkstroud · Sep 16, 2008, 01:27 PM

Quite possible that the existing cables were sufficient for 150amps. However, if you see bare wires, not insulation, but bare wire you have safety issue. Perhaps you should just relate you concern that previous owner may have done some a "bootleg" or "upgrade with out a permit". What ever to get the service man out to take a look.