[speechlesstx]

Who cares?

I get it, hypocrisy and sleaze only count if it comes from the right. Is that it, NK?

[NeedKarma]

I get it, hypocrisy and sleaze only count if it comes from the right. Is that it, NK?

No, I don't care what McCain's friends did decades ago either, it's not relevant.

[Wondergirl]

Bill Ayres was a terrorist 40 years ago.

Ol' Bill grew up in the Chicago suburb just west of me. He and I could have had pizza together had we known each other back when we were kids.

He didn't get caught, but did turn himself in.

These are his comments regarding terrorist, printed in Wikipedia --

"We weren't terrorists," Ayers told an interviewer for the Chicago Tribune in 2001. "The reason we weren't terrorists is because we did not commit random acts of terror against people. Terrorism was what was being practiced in the countryside of Vietnam by the United States." In a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune, Ayers wrote, "I condemn all forms of terrorism — individual, group and official". He also condemned the September 11 terrorist attacks in that letter. "Today we are witnessing crimes against humanity on our own shores on an unthinkable scale, and I fear that we may soon see more innocent people in other parts of the world dying in response."

[tomder55]

Nice distintion .He was waging war on America then as he bomber the NYC Police HQ .

Here is another of his warped definitions explaining why he was not a terrorist :
"Terrorists destroy randomly,"..."while our actions bore ... the precise stamp of a cut diamond. Terrorists intimidate, while we aimed only to educate."

His girl friend died making a nail bomb that would've been detonated at a dance where both soldiers and civilians were to attend . Hundreds of lives could have been lost had the plan been successfully executed. Ayers attested that the bomb would have done serious damage, "tearing through windows and walls and, yes, people too.
"http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2169

[ETWolverine]

EDIT:
Found this link just after posting. Four to one the world wants Obama over McCain. Guess its lucky for a lot of you guys that we dont get a vote.

Either president may disappoint us - Opinion - smh.com.au

Yeah... but who does that include?

It includes Hamas, Hizbolah, Al Qaeda, the PLO, the Taliban, FARC and all the other terrorists. It includes Castro, Chavez, Kim Gong Il, the Chinese leadership and Ahmadinejad.

We should not be basing our presidential choices on what outsiders, including our enemies, would like to see. If our enemies want Obama, it seems pretty clear to me that Obama is the LAST person we should vote for.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

Ol' Bill grew up in the Chicago suburb just west of me. He and I coulda had pizza together had we known each other back when we were kids.

He didn't get caught, but did turn himself in.

These are his comments regarding terrorist, printed in Wikipedia --

"We weren't terrorists," Ayers told an interviewer for the Chicago Tribune in 2001. "The reason we weren't terrorists is because we did not commit random acts of terror against people. Terrorism was what was being practiced in the countryside of Vietnam by the United States." In a letter to the editor in the Chicago Tribune, Ayers wrote, "I condemn all forms of terrorism — individual, group and official". He also condemned the September 11 terrorist attacks in that letter. "Today we are witnessing crimes against humanity on our own shores on an unthinkable scale, and I fear that we may soon see more innocent people in other parts of the world dying in response."

I don't know... blowing up statues in public parks, blowing up police stations, blowing up military recruiting offices, and blowing up the capitol... aren't these acts of terrorism?

Ayers claims his actions were designed to "educate"?

He was a friggin' university professor. That's his idea of education? What was his curriculum? Plastique 101? How to make home-made pipe bobs? Civil disobedience and violent protest for the 20th Century?

Education TEACHES people. Blowing stuff up KILLS people. Ayers was no educator, regardless of what he calls himself.

Worse, he sympathizes with terrorists, and counts himself as one of them. After the Towers came down on 9-11, Ayers said that the only thing he regretted was that he didn't blow MORE stuff up like the 9-11 terrorists did. HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF ONE OF THEM.

Please don't be so naïve, Carol. Ayers is a sick and dangerous man, and a terrorist. He's NOT in the league of an OBL, but only because he incompetent, not for lack of trying. And he's PROUD to be counted among their number.

Elliot

[ETWolverine]

No, I don't care what McCain's friends did decades ago either, it's not relevant.

Actually, it is very relevant. Who a person associates with is indicative of who he takes advice from.

ANd it's hard to question McCains friends... they were all spending their time in the Hanoi Hilton getting the crap kicked out of them by communist enemies of the USA, while Ayers was blowing stuff up back home in sympathy for the guys who were torturing McCain and his buddies.

Associations go DIRECTLY to indicate what a person believes, supports, and takes comfort in. And Obama's associations are DANGEROUS indicators that he is the WRONG MAN FOR THE JOB.

Elliot

[inthebox]

Yeah... but who does that include?

It includes Hamas, Hizbolah, Al Qaeda, the PLO, the Taliban, FARC and all the other terrorists. It includes Castro, Chavez, Kim Gong Il, the Chinese leadership and Ahmadinejad.

We should not be basing our presidential choices on what outsiders, including our enemies, would like to see. If our enemies want Obama, it seems pretty clear to me that Obama is the LAST person we should vote for.

Elliot

If the world is so in love with him , they can have him :D

[Wondergirl]

He was a friggin' university professor. That's his idea of education? What was his curriculum? Plastique 101? How to make home-made pipe bobs? Civil disobedience and violent protest for the 20th Century?

Education TEACHES people. Blowing stuff up KILLS people. Ayers was no educator, regardless of what he calls himself.

Worse, he sympathizes with terrorists, and counts himself as one of them. After the Towers came down on 9-11, Ayers said that the only thing he regretted was that he didn't blow MORE stuff up like the 9-11 terrorists did. HE CONSIDERS HIMSELF ONE OF THEM.

Please don't be so naive, Carol. Ayers is a sick and dangerous man, and a terrorist. He's NOT in the league of an OBL, but only because he incompetent, not for lack of trying. And he's PROUD to be counted among their number.

Elliot

IS, Elliiot, IS. Ayers IS a college teacher NOW. He teaches classes in social justice, urban educational reform, narrative and interpretive research, dealing with children in trouble with the law, etc.

Here is a site that lists the books he has written:

William Ayers: Books by William Ayers

Ayers is not "a sick and dangerous man," as you so glowingly phrased it. He is not proud of his past (40 years ago!! ) which occasionally comes back to bite him in the butt, as pasts so often do.

Naïve, Elliot? Who's naïve? I at least do research on both sides of an issue and read what I have found and weigh the information therein and do my level best not to swallow hook, line, and sinker whatever the party line is.

P.S. And I would be very pleased to eat pizza with Bill Ayers today if I had the chance, Elliot, just as I would be pleased to share one with you.

Here's his blog. Feel free to read it and post a comment:

Bill Ayers Blogspot

[ETWolverine]

Ayers is not "a sick and dangerous man," as you so glowingly phrased it. He is not proud of his past (40 years ago!!!!!!) which occasionally comes back to bite him in the butt, as pasts so often do.

Carol, you are being naïve.

Please read this article from the NY Times of 9/11/01.

Here are a few quotes from that article.

''I don't regret setting bombs,'' Bill Ayers said. ''I feel we didn't do enough.''

In his book Mr. Ayers describes the Weathermen descending into a ''whirlpool of violence.'' ''Everything was absolutely ideal on the day I bombed the Pentagon,'' he writes. But then comes a disclaimer: ''Even though I didn't actually bomb the Pentagon -- we bombed it, in the sense that Weathermen organized it and claimed it.'' He goes on to provide details about the manufacture of the bomb and how a woman he calls Anna placed the bomb in a restroom. No one was killed or injured, though damage was extensive.

So, would Mr. Ayers do it all again, he is asked? ''I don't want to discount the possibility,'' he said.

Even today, he finds ''a certain eloquence to bombs, a poetry and a pattern from a safe distance,'' he writes.



This does not sound like a man who is not proud of his past. It, in fact, sounds like a man who is quite proud of his past and wants to in some way recapture the "glory" of his past. It sounds like a man who wishes to continue in the actions of the past. It sounds like someone who CELEBRATES his past.

Bill Ayers is an unrepentant terrorist, a lover of bombs at "a safe distance", and a hater of America.

Ayers' politics haven't changed. Nor have his methods. He is still hell-bent on destroying American capitalism, democracy and "imperialism".

Why you would want to have a pizza with such a person, I have no idea.

Elliot

[Wondergirl]

Why you would want to have a pizza with such a person, I have no idea.

I'll give him all my anchovies.

[tomder55]

John Batchelor does a nice job writing about Bill Ayers . He claims Ayers is part of a group that also includes another blast from the past;Tom Hayden who are feverishly determined to run interference for Obama over his relationship with Ayers during the Annenberg Challenge Project days .
Obama's Plumbers - HUMAN EVENTS

BTW There is a community organizer named Curtis Sliwa .I can point to tangible accomplishments he has done that will positively affect the communities in a large number of cities around the country and the world long after he is gone.
The Alliance of Guardian Angels

I find ;no matter how hard I search ,no accomplishment by B.O. during his time as a "Community Organizer". By his own admission he was ineffective . That is why he decided to leave the "profession" ,and pursue his law degree.

[Wondergirl]

I find ;no matter how hard I search ,no accomplishment by B.O. during his time as a "Community Organizer". By his own admission he was ineffective . That is why he decided to leave the "profession" ,and persue his law degree.

I'll post his accomplishments this afternoon after I eat lunch. He wasn't effective in that he didn't magically turn things around in the neighborhood where he worked. No one is effective as a community organizer unless they spend years there, and then only so much so. How long did it take Dorothy Day or Jane Addams?? A friend has been a night minister (along with other ministers and church members) in the Chicago inner city for decades and has barely scratched the surface of helping residents, prostitutes, drug dealers. And Obama was in one of the worst possible areas of South Side Chicago, trying to bring people together.

[Wondergirl]

One source, from usnews.com:

Listening. In a speech in February announcing his presidential bid, Obama said, "It was in these neighborhoods that I received the best education I ever had." His work, he added, "taught me a lot about listening to people as opposed to coming in with a predetermined agenda."

Today, the experiences at Altgeld Gardens echo throughout his campaign. His support last week for allowing Cuban-Americans to increase their contact with relatives in Cuba was an extension of his outreach to both friends and foes in Chicago. The same is true of his pledge to meet as president without preconditions with leaders of rogue nations such as Iran and North Korea. His critics called him naive, but his admirers say it was another example of Obama's commitment to seeking common ground.

After graduating from Columbia University in 1983 with a major in political science, Obama worked as a financial consultant in New York City. But he was bored—and drawn to public service. In 1985, he moved to Chicago to work with local churches organizing job training and other programs for poor and working-class residents of Altgeld Gardens, a public housing project where 5,300 African-Americans tried to survive amid shuttered steel mills, a nearby landfill, a putrid sewage treatment plant, and a pervasive feeling that the white establishment of Chicago would never give them a fair shake.

Jerry Kellman, a social activist who recruited Obama, recalls, "He was very bright, very articulate, very personable, and very idealistic," inspired by civil rights leader Martin Luther King Jr.'s philosophy of nonviolence. Kellman offered Obama a job at the annual salary of $10,000, and he threw in $2,000 so Obama could buy a ramshackle car to get around.

Obama was a stranger to the area but caught on quickly by showing humility and a strong work ethic. "We knew what was wrong in the community but we didn't know how to get something done about it," recalls Yvonne Lloyd, 78, who worked with Obama. Obama insisted on "staying in the background while he empowered us." By Obama's own admission, there were few big victories. But whether it was getting the city to fill potholes, provide summer jobs, or remove asbestos from the apartments or persuading the apartment managers to repair toilets, pipes, and ceilings, Obama encouraged residents to come up with their own priorities with the gentle admonition: "It's your community."

[Skell]

If you caught the interview or read the transcript you should know "the task from God" quote was badly distorted. She didn't claim it was, but as Abraham Lincoln suggested prayed that it was a task from God, as in let us pray that we're on God's side, not that God is on our side. There is a huge difference there.

Quotes being badly distorted?? Never... :D

[Skell]

Yeah... but who does that include?

It includes Hamas, Hizbolah, Al Qaeda, the PLO, the Taliban, FARC and all the other terrorists. It includes Castro, Chavez, Kim Gong Il, the Chinese leadership and Ahmadinejad.

We should not be basing our presidential choices on what outsiders, including our enemies, would like to see. If our enemies want Obama, it seems pretty clear to me that Obama is the LAST person we should vote for.

Elliot

Somehow I don't think the BBC survey included polling Osama bin Laden and his pals.

[ETWolverine]

Somehow i dont think the BBC survey included polling Osama bin Laden and his pals.

They didn't have to. OBL, Ahmadinejad, Hamas, Hizbollah, Chavez and Castro have all made their pick known to the MSM.

Elliot

[tomder55]

Jerry Kellman, a social activist who recruited Obama

Perhaps that is the difference between Obama and Sliwa . Sliwa wasn't recruited and trained by a Saul Alinsky radical like Obama was .

This is what Obama wrote about community organizing in his first autobiography
“When classmates in college asked me just what it was that a community organizer did, I couldn't answer them directly,” “Instead, I'd pronounce on the need for change. Change in the White House, where Reagan and his minions were carrying on their dirty deeds. Change in the Congress, compliant and corrupt. Change in the mood of the country, manic and self-absorbed. Change won't come from the top, I would say. Change will come from a mobilized grass roots.”

Obviously he changed because now he is seeking to be the top of the top.

Altgeld Gardens are as bad today as when Obama was "organizing "there. In his book, he pretends he had a major role in redevelopment especially in asbestos removal .Reports I've read say he had a minor role at best in that..

[Wondergirl]

Altgeld Gardens are as bad today as when Obama was "organizing "there.

That's because no one has kept up the organizing. Projects were abandoned and new ones weren't instituted. That's not Obama's fault. AG is no walk in the park.

From Wiki --

"Altgeld Gardens' boundaries are 130th Street on the north and 138th Street on the south, from the Calumet Expressway on the east and the Calumet River on the west. Altgeld Gardens is located near numerous manufacturing plants, former steel mills, waste dumps and landfills. The residents have a growing concern about the number of deaths annually from cancer and other diseases that may be related to their environment."

[tomder55]

Typical liberal solution housing the poor near a garbage dump.