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arcura · Aug 27, 2008, 09:47 PM

(From the NJB) Matthew 24:42. `So stay awake, because you do not know the day when your master is coming.
43. You may be quite sure of this, that if the householder had known at what time of the night the burglar would come, he would have stayed awake and would not have allowed anyone to break through the wall of his house.
44. Therefore, you too must stand ready because the Son of man is coming at an hour you do not expect.
45. `Who, then, is the wise and trustworthy servant whom the master placed over his household to give them their food at the proper time?
46. Blessed that servant if his master's arrival finds him doing exactly that.
47. In truth I tell you, he will put him in charge of everything he owns.
48. But if the servant is dishonest and says to himself, `My master is taking his time,'
49. And sets about beating his fellow-servants and eating and drinking with drunkards,
50. His master will come on a day he does not expect and at an hour he does not know.
51. The master will cut him off and send him to the same fate as the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and grinding of teeth."
Because of the many last days books and movie and the many preachers who claim that the end is coming soon, more people are EXPECTING that to happen than ever before in history.
The bible says in several places that Jesus will return when we least expect Him.
That is in direct conflict with the rapture' bogus theology.
So why do so many believe it when the bible says otherwise?
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

sndbay · Aug 28, 2008, 04:49 AM

Originally Posted by arcura

(From the NJB) Matthew 24:42.
So why do so many believe it when the bible says otherwise?
:) Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

Because as it is also written you can be deceived by satan, and satan has children that follow him.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto satan, Whence comest thou? Then satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

Mark 14:15 And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

Remember and Know the Parable of the Fig Tree

Mark 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near:

maje3 · Aug 28, 2008, 11:57 AM

Arcura, What are you talking about?

Credendovidis · Aug 28, 2008, 06:38 PM

Dear Fred

I assume your header meant to say "Why do so many believe in nature when the bible says otherwise?"

That suggestion is not going on all fours : one does not believe in nature.
One considers all the data and Objective Supporting Evidence for that, and draws a conclusion from the facts provided.

One can ONLY BELIEVE in religious claims and suggestions, as religion is entirely based on claims without even the slightest form of OSE. Every conclusion therefore has to be based on BELIEF.

The Bible has to be read within the context of 2000 years+ of hindsight. Knowledge of nature, physics, and science in general were at a low level. The Bible was written by - I assume again - goodwilling human beings, and therefore reflects the knowledge of that time, i.e. rather uneducated in all these mentioned subjects, and so the Bible itself must be seen in that light.

So that the Bible says otherwise to what we know today is rather logical and self-evident, and it are not the facts of nature that have to be seen in the light of what the Bible states. The MESSAGE of the Bible is important, not what is in Book X on page Y, line Z.

Have a nice day, Fred !

:>)

.

Moparbyfar · Aug 28, 2008, 06:41 PM

I think it's meant to read rapture Crede.

arcura · Aug 28, 2008, 06:44 PM

Sorry about the typo.
I was talking about the RAPTURE.
It is the so-called coming soon of Christ.
Because so many expect it soon what the bible says causes me to believe that the return of Christ is a long way into the future when far fewer people expect His return.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcira)

maje3 · Aug 28, 2008, 07:39 PM

What is it that the Bible says that makes you think it is a long way away?

Credendovidis · Aug 28, 2008, 07:45 PM

maje3 : don't you think NEVER is a long time ?

:>)

maje3 · Aug 28, 2008, 07:51 PM

Where does it say He is never coming back?

Moparbyfar · Aug 28, 2008, 08:04 PM

OH Maje, DON'T get started with Crede, you'll get sucked into the vortex too! ;)

maje3 · Aug 28, 2008, 08:25 PM

I am intrigued to know what Fred is talking about. But thanks for the warning.

Wondergirl · Aug 28, 2008, 08:36 PM

Originally Posted by maje3

I am intrigued to know what Fred is talking about. But thanx for the warning.

I think Fred is warning believers in the rapture that their idea of "soon" may not be as soon as what they think soon is. Jesus will return when He returns, and not necessarily soon.

(Did that help?)

arcura · Aug 28, 2008, 09:36 PM

Wondergirl,
You are right.
Jesus is coming soon compared to when he ascended 2000 years ago.
But the soon the rapture believers speak of is not "soon" as mean with "the near future"
When the great many people stop expecting him that will mean that His return will truly be sooner.
He will come as a thief in the night might.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Wondergirl · Aug 28, 2008, 10:13 PM

Originally Posted by arcura

Wondergirl,
You are right.
Jesus is coming soon compared to when he ascended 2000 years ago.
But the soon the the rapture believers speak of is not "soon" as mean with "the near future"
When the great many people stop expecting him that will mean that His return will truly be sooner.
He will come as a thief in the night might.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

I hope it's soon.

Credendovidis · Aug 29, 2008, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl

I hope it's soon.

I respect other peoples beliefs, but I do not understand statements like that.
You can only be sure of one life : the one here on earth. All formats of afterlife are religion based and subject to certain dogmatic conditions.

If a Christian tells me that IF the rapture happens, he/she will be glad with that, I can understand that.
But if a Christian tells me that he/she hopes the rapture is soon, I start questioning their ability to think realistic and their capacity to think well-considered.

Is our function in life only to survive death, or to ensure a future generation coming to full development? What about the lack of future for your children and grand children?

Life is short enough, and HOPING that it ends soon seems more the thoughts of someone with a lacking wish to live his/her life to the fullest. After all : that is what the rapture is about : the ending of earthly life, and moving to heaven for those who fulfill the criteria.

Personally I feel great with the one and only life that is given to all of us : the one here on earth. And I'll take it from there, "come Hell or High Water" (how suitable and applying in this respect !)

:>)

.

Capuchin · Aug 29, 2008, 02:57 AM

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I respect other peoples beliefs, but I do not understand statements like that.
You can only be sure of one life : the one here on earth. All formats of afterlife are religion based and subject to certain dogmatic conditions.

If a Christian tells me that IF the rapture happens, he/she will be glad with that, I can understand that.
But if a Christian tells me that he/she hopes the rapture is soon, I start questioning their ability to think realistic and their capacity to think well-considered.

Is our function in life only to survive death, or to ensure a future generation coming to full development? What about the lack of future for your children and grand children?

Life is short enough, and HOPING that it ends soon seems more the thoughts of someone with a lacking wish to live his/her life to the fullest. Afterall : that is what the rapture is about : the ending of earthly life, and moving to heaven for those who fullfill the criteria.

Personally I feel great with the one and only life that is given to all of us : the one here on earth. And I'll take it from there, "come Hell or High Water" (how suitable and applying in this respect !)

:>)

.

But surely this is one of the psychological benefits of religion, to quench the fear of death? It seems to do that fairly well, if only by introducing fairytale in its place.

maje3 · Aug 29, 2008, 05:40 AM

Jesus coming as a thief in the night is referring to him coming when we least expect it so we should always be ready. That is why we are always expecting it. And the Bible is clear about the signs that will precede His coming. And several of them have come to pass, so yes I do think it is in the near future. Wondergirl, I hope it is soon too, we live in a messed up world and it is only getting worse. And for those of us who do believe in the rapture, it is going to be a glorious day. For those who don't, well...

Wondergirl · Aug 29, 2008, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I hope it's soon.

Originally Posted by Credendovidis

I respect other peoples beliefs, but I do not understand statements like that.

I don't believe in the rapture. I was just hoping that, if there will be one, it will be soon so as to get on to the next adventure.

NeedKarma · Aug 29, 2008, 10:04 AM

That's sad Wondergirl - this life isn't that bad for many of us, we're actually enjoying ourselves. :)
I kind of find it shocking that the Parenting expert wants the world to end soon. How does that play into helping raise the next generation?

Wondergirl · Aug 29, 2008, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by NeedKarma

That's sad Wondergirl - this life isn't that bad for many of us, we're actually enjoying ourselves. :)
I kind of find it shocking that the Parenting expert wants the world to end soon. How does that play into helping raise the next generation?

"Soon" is relative, and I was speaking only of myself. As for my "personal rapture," it will be sooner rather than later.