[arcura]

De Maria,
I do not believe that I was abusing or lying about Tj3.
I was expressing my opinion which I believe to be true from what he has been posting here.
But I will try to tone my posts like that down with more gentle wording or I will refrain from commenting.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura).

[Tj3]

De Maria,
I do not believe that I was abusing or lying about Tj3.
I was expressing my opinion which I believe to be true from waht he has been posting here.

An "opinion" which you know to be false because you have been told so many times.

Therefore either you are deliberately lying - which is abusive.

[arcura]

Tj3,
I'm sorry that you believe that way.
I am trying to be honest with you.
My opinion is an honest one for it is what I believe to be true.
But as I said, I will try to tone down my responses with gentler words or refrain from commenting.
I hope that make you happy.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
I'm sorry that you believe that way.
I am trying to be honest with you.

If that is true, then with all due respect, your memory is impaired. You should seriously have that checked out.

But as I said, I will try to tone down my responses with gentler words or refrain from commenting.

That would be a nice change. I look forward to the new Fred.

[arcura]

Tj3,
Thank you.
Fred

[JoeT777]

Mary is the Mother of God, attested to by the Council of Ephesus in 431AD. She is perpetually virgin, immaculately conceived, and assumed into heaven. The Nazarene woman, Mary, was born without ever knowing original sin being “FULL OF GRACE.” Her conception and birth was kept free from the stain of original sin and remained pure throughout her life.

Mary's Immaculate Conception:

The Virgin Mother of God would not be conceived by Anna before grace would bear its fruits; it was proper that she be conceived as the first-born, by whom "the first-born of every creature" would be conceived. They testified, too, that the flesh of the Virgin, although derived from Adam, did not contract the stains of Adam, and that on this account the most Blessed Virgin was the tabernacle created by God himself and formed by the Holy Spirit, truly a work in royal purple, adorned and woven with gold, which that new Beseleel made. Pope Pius IX ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854

You might recall the Tabernacle is the tent-like sanctuary of the Hebrews before the erection of Solomon's Temple, made permanent by King Solomon. The Tabernacle called, beth Yahweh, house of Yahweh included an outer court surrounded by a wall; an inner court; Holy of Holies. The Holy of Holies contained the veil that separated the Ark from the inner court. It contained the incense altar, the table of the Bread of Presence (12 loaves), the menorah, It was. This sanctuary housed the Ark of the Covenant, see Ex. 25-31 and Ex. 36 – 40 for additional information on the Tabernacle.

Mary was Ever Virgin:

You say that Mary did not continue a virgin: I claim still more, that Joseph himself on account of Mary was a virgin, so that from a virgin wedlock a virgin son was born. For if as a holy man he does not come under the imputation of fornication, and it is nowhere written that he had another wife, but was the guardian of Mary whom he was supposed to have to wife rather than her husband, the conclusion is that he who was thought worthy to be called father of the Lord, remained a virgin. St. Jerome, Against Helvidius 383 c.

Roman Catholic beliefs:

"We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful." Pope Pius IX ineffabilis Deus, December 8, 1854


JosephT

[Tj3]

[QUOTE=JoeT777]Mary is the Mother of God, attested to by the Council of Ephesus in 431AD... [/quotes]

Whop cares about private interpretations of men? I am interested in what the Holy Scriptures say. And they deny that Mary is the mother of the trinity.

[JoeT777]

[QUOTE=Tj3]

Mary is the Mother of God, attested to by the Council of Ephesus in 431AD.....[/quotes]

Whop cares about private interpretations of men? I am interested in what the Holy Scriptures say. And they deny that Mary is the mother of the trinity.

You should.

[Tj3]

You should.

I am - that is why you see my standard of doctrine is scripture, and I do not rely upon the private interpretations of men as some others do.

[JoeT777]

I am - that is why you see my standard of doctrine is scripture, and I do not rely upon the private interpretations of men as some others do.

Gee, that must be awful. Just think one small mistake and you are distorting God’s word. I surly wouldn’t want that responsibility. Thank God for the Roman Church.

JoeT

[arcura]

Tj3,
No one says that Mary is the mother of the Trinity (Three Beings), Only that she is the mother of God the Son (one being of the Trinity).
With God all things are possible. Do you believe that?
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
No one says that Mary is the mother of the Trinity (Three Beings), Only that she is the mother of God the Son (one being of the Trinity).

So you say God is not a trinity?

[Tj3]

Gee, that must be awful. Just think one small mistake and you are distorting God's word. I surly wouldn't want that responsibility. Thank God for the Roman Church.

JoeT

Wow! Accusing God of making mistakes while suggesting that the men in your denomination don't!

Prov 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure;
He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.
6 Do not add to His words,
Lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar.
NKJV

[arcura]

Tj3,
NO!!
Not at all!
Please read what I said slowly so you can get it.
I mentioned the trinity (Three beings in One God)
No where, in no way did I say that God is not a trinity.
I have many times said that I believe in the Catholic Theology and Bible that God Is The Divine Trinity.
Of course you do know that it was The Church who first put forth the theology of The Trinity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[Tj3]

Tj3,
NO!!
Not at all!
Please read what I said slowly so you can get it.
I mentioned the trinity (Three beings in One God)
No where, in no way did I say that God is not a trinity.

And if Mary is not the mother of the trinity, then she is not the mother of God. God pre-existed her, and no member of the trinity pre-existed the rest. They all existed from eternity.

Of course you do know that it was The Church who first put forth the theology of The Trinity.

Actually, it was well before the church - the trinity is taught in the OT. Though I do agree that The Church taught it well before your denomination came into being.

[Wondergirl]

If Mary is the mother of God, who is the father of God?

Jesus never called Mary "mother". He called her "woman".

[arcura]

Tj3,
I see that you still can not grasp that Mary IS the Mother of God The Son as the bible so indicates.
By the way My church is and was the very first Church. Jesus founded it on the Rock he called Peter as the bible so says.
That is a biblical and historical fact.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

[BahamaMama]

Why does the Catholic church say the Mary was always a virgin, in Luke 2, it talks about Mary's "Firstborn Son".
4So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David.
5He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child.
6While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born,
7and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

In Mathew 13 it names Jesus brothers and "All his sisters" meaning at least three.

53When Jesus had finished these parables, he moved on from there.
54Coming to his hometown, he began teaching the people in their synagogue, and they were amazed. "Where did this man get this wisdom and these miraculous powers?" they asked.
55"Isn't this the carpenter's son? Isn't his mother's name Mary, and aren't his brothers James, Joseph, Simon and Judas?
56Aren't all his sisters with us? Where then did this man get all these things?"
57And they took offense at him.
But Jesus said to them, "Only in his hometown and in his own house is a prophet without honor."
58And he did not do many miracles there because of their lack of faith.

No doubt, they have an explanation to gloss over the truth again, like, "they were cousins and they used to call their cousins brothers and sisters in those days."

There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: "But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) UNTIL she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus" (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

This is what I looked up and what I think... It says clearly that Joseph had no union with Mary UNTIL she gave birth to a son... who was her firstborn... therefore it does mention the other children you talked about, and I do believe that Jesus had 4 stepbrothers and more than 2 sisters...

[Tj3]

Tj3,
I see that you still can not grasp that Mary IS the Mother of God The Son as the bible so indicates.

Then you are denying the eternal nature of Jesus? Scripture says only that she was the vessel through whom Jesus entered the world in the flesh, NOT that she was the mother of divinity.

By the way My church is and was the very first Church. Jesus founded it on the Rock he called Peter as the bible so says.

Scripture does not say that anywhere - oddly, no matter how many times it is shown to you what the context is, and what the word means in Greek, you ignore the facts. History shows that your denomination started in 325AD.

[De Maria]

There is no Biblical reason to believe that these siblings are anything other than the actual children of Joseph and Mary. Those who oppose the idea that Jesus had half-brothers and half-sisters do so, not from a reading of Scripture, but from a preconceived concept of the perpetual virginity of Mary, which is itself clearly unbiblical: "But he (Joseph) had no union with her (Mary) UNTIL she gave birth to a son. And he gave Him the name Jesus" (Matthew 1:25). Jesus had half-siblings, half-brothers and half-sisters, who were the children of Joseph and Mary. That is the clear and unambiguous teaching of God’s Word.

This is what I looked up and what I think...It says clearly that Joseph had no union with Mary UNTIL she gave birth to a son...who was her firstborn...therefore it does mention the other children you talked about, and I do believe that Jesus had 4 stepbrothers and more than 2 sisters...

Unless you are insinuating that Mary had more than one husband, you are mistaken. Because it is clear from Scripture that James, Joses, Simon and Judas are the sons of one woman named Mary. And since Scripture identifies James as son of Clopas. And also identifies another woman named Mary as wife of Clopas whose children are James and Joses. Then that means that woman is the mother of all James, Joses, Simon and Judas.

This same woman is mother of Salome. And since Mary of Clopas is identified as sister of Mary, that means that she and Salome are the "sisters" that is to mean, the "kin" of Jesus.

Here are the relevant Scriptures:

Jesus Brothers and Mary's Perpetual Virginity -- Apolonio's Catholic Apologetics, Philosophy, Spirituality

Sincerely,

De Maria