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mekia · Aug 18, 2008, 04:23 PM

I want to know how to get full custody of my son. His father moved to California while I was pregnant. His name is not on the birth certificate and my son has my last name. I let him visit with his father because I thought it would be nice. Well that was 4 weeks ago and I found out my son is not with him but with his psychotic grandmom in Minnesota. She does not want to give me my son. Im in Virginia right now and is on my way back to Minnesota and want to know what's the procedure to file for full custody of my son.

Cailleac Bhuer · Aug 18, 2008, 04:36 PM

There is no custody order? Still, I would call the law enforcemetn office closest to the grandma NOW and advise them of the situation. She has no legal right to withhold your child from you ; in most states it is considered kidnapping.

Once you have done that, go to the court house in your area, or go online if it is an option in your state/county and fill out the documents for child custody, ask for a fee waiver if you can't afford the filing fee and file those docs ASAP

JudyKayTee · Aug 19, 2008, 10:54 AM

Originally Posted by Cailleac Bhuer

There is no custody order? Still, I would call the law enforcemetn office closest to the grandma NOW and advise them of the situation. She has no legal right to withhold your child from you ; in most states it is considered kidnapping.

once you have done that, go to the court house in your area, or go online if it is an option in your state/county and fill out the documents for child custody, ask for a fee waiver if you can't afford the filing fee and file those docs ASAP

You don't need a custody order - he's not the legal/declared father. You can simply withhold the child once you get the child back. Right now it's your ball game and he has now say.

Let him get an order for visitation, you countersue for support, you explain why his visitation has to be supervised (or not at all).

As far as his mother having the child you can contact the Police - without a custody order I don't know how interested they will be so your best bet is to call the father, tell him you want the child back. He has every right to have the child visit relatives at this point, as do you.

itsjessica1984 · Aug 19, 2008, 11:28 AM

Call the police
Mention that you had allowed the father access not the grandma and if the father does not have his name on the birth certifict the only right he has is to pay. The grandma has none at all and will have even less after this
Second step get ahold of child services (social services) were the grandma lives and let them know the situation
If you have to go down there get a police officer to come with you and get your child back
I live in canada so things might be different but when you go for custody go through the higher courts that way no other court can overule it
Best of luck
If he goes for visation rights ask the courts for it to be supervised and for his mother not to have any access unless she goes to the court herself for visation rights (make sure to keep all paper work from now to then, name of social works, police officers, file numbers everything)

JudyKayTee · Aug 19, 2008, 12:32 PM

Originally Posted by itsjessica1984

call the police
mention that you had allowed the father access not the grandma and if the father does not have his name on the birth certifict the only right he has is to pay. the grandma has none at all and will have even less after this
second step get ahold of child services (social services) were the grandma lives and let them know the situation
if you have to go down there get a police officer to come with you and get your child back
i live in canada so things might be different but when you go for custody go through the higher courts that way no other court can overule it
best of luck
if he goes for visation rights ask the courts for it to be supervised and for his mother not to have any access unless she goes to the court herself for visation rights (make sure to keep all paper work from now to then, name of social works, police officers, file numbers everything)

It is not the same in the US, unfortunately - when the father has custody of the child he also has control of the child, including who the child visits, where the child goes. Without a specific Court Order which would have to order supervised visitation the custodial parent cannot control all aspects of the other parent's visitation.

A mother on the legal board went through this within the past two months - the Police would not take action because without an Order both mother and father are entitled to the child. She eventually filed for emergency relief, an emergency order, and that is how she got the child back.

The people who post went back and forth about whether the grandmother had kidnapped the child, could she be arrested, what was State law - but in the end the emergency petition to return the child and grant the mother custody brought the child back.

itsjessica1984 · Aug 19, 2008, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by JudyKayTee

It is not the same in the US, unfortunately - when the father has custody of the child he also has control of the child, including who the child visits, where the child goes. Without a specific Court Order which would have to order supervised visitation the custodial parent cannot control all aspects of the other parent's visitation.

A mother on the legal board went through this within the past two months - the Police would not take action because without an Order both mother and father are entitled to the child. She eventually filed for emergency relief, an emergency order, and that is how she got the child back.

The people who post went back and forth about whether the grandmother had kidnapped the child, could she be arrested, what was State law - but in the end the emergency petition to return the child and grant the mother custody brought the child back.

Thank you I didn't know that, just seems strange the father would have as many rights to the child when no paper work proves him to be the father even if no parenting order has been granted (parenting order is what canada calls it sounds stupid compared to custody) that be like finding a babysitter and then the babysitter hands the child over to its mother and she doesn't want to return the child to its biological mother. Anyway my thoughts of what makes sense and this women getting her child back are two different subjects ill step out of this conversation because you know better then me.
God Bless and please remain strong your child deserves you and not a kidnapper

JudyKayTee · Aug 19, 2008, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by itsjessica1984

thank you I didnt know that, just seems strange the father would have as many rights to the child when no paper work proves him to be the father even if no parenting order has been granted (parenting order is what canada calls it sounds stupid compared to custody) that be like finding a babysitter and then the babysitter hands the child over to its mother and she dosnt want to return the child to its biological mother. Anyways my thoughts of what makes sence and this women getting her child back are two different subjects ill step out of this conversation because you know better then me.
God Bless and please remain strong your child deserves you and not a kidnapper

Problem is the mother acknowledges he's the father and let him take the child.

Don't step out of the conversation - what you have posted is going to be helpful the next time someone in Canada posts. It's amazing how much you can learn on the threads, how much the law varies from place to place. Questions are always welcome - goodness knows, I have a bunch!

The whole custody thing is why the Police "usually" have no interest - they aren't the Courts (obviously) and their job is to enforce the law and various Orders and in this case it's "he said/she said" and no Order!

isabelle · Aug 20, 2008, 04:28 AM

You didn't mention any custody papers at all. I The state I live in the mother can get custody and child support, without the farther being at the court.
It sounds like with 2 states involved that you need a lawyer now to get an emergency order. In my state this takes priority in the courts, so it may only be few days.
It doesn't sound right that this man can give his child to his mother, but the law can be a strange thing. You need a lawyer now..

JudyKayTee · Aug 20, 2008, 06:08 AM

Originally Posted by isabelle

You didn't mention any custody papers at all. I The state I live in the mother can get custody and child support, without the farther being at the court.
It sounds like with 2 states involved that you need a lawyer now to get an emergency order. In my state this takes priority in the courts, so it may only be few days.
It doesn't sound right that this man can give his child to his mother, but the law can be a strange thing. You need a lawyer now..

The mother can get custody and support without the father being in Court in any State as long as he is notified of the proceeding - he does not have to appear. It's his choice.

As I said, this has been addressed on the legal boards before - at the moment the mother and father have joint rights to the child as biological parents without any Court order although the mother has control of the situation - or did - by virtue of having control over the child.

As far as I can tell the father did not "give" the child to his mother. The child is visiting with his grandmother. If this is not the mother's choice, yes, she can attempt to get an emergency order OR just ask that the child be returned to her.

mekia · Aug 20, 2008, 11:00 PM

Ok So I asked a question previously about my son visiting his father in California and his mom taking my son. Well she returned him to his father before I could catch her. I told the father I was coming to get him because I do not trust him and don't know what he will do next. He told me I could not come and get him and we would have to go to family court in order for me to get him. Is this true? He has not signed any papers stating he is the father and his name is not on the birth certificate. I reside in Minnesota and him in California.So do we have the custody hearing in Mn or Ca? What are my rights in this situation?

isabelle · Aug 21, 2008, 05:48 AM

Judy "give" was the wrong choice of words , perhaps "leaving" the child with Grandma and then Grandma refusing to return said child to the Mother would have been a better choice.
I agree with everything you said.

ScottGem · Aug 21, 2008, 05:58 AM

We need some more info from you to help. How old is the child? Was this the first time you let the child stay with the father? Is there ANY paperwork showing that he is the father?

Your best bet is to get an attorney to file for full custody where you live. Then take that custody order and pick up the child. If the current caretaker refuses to relinquish the child, leave immediately and go to the local police show them the custody order and tell them this woman is refusing to relinquish the child. There is a good likelihood they will accompany you to pick up the child.

Since the father is not on the because, you MIGHT be able to get away with just showing the police the because and getting them to accompany you back to pick up the child. But I would be more inclined to get a custody order first.

itsjessica1984 · Aug 21, 2008, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by isabelle

You didn't mention any custody papers at all. I The state I live in the mother can get custody and child support, without the farther being at the court.
It sounds like with 2 states involved that you need a lawyer now to get an emergency order. In my state this takes priority in the courts, so it may only be few days.
It doesn't sound right that this man can give his child to his mother, but the law can be a strange thing. You need a lawyer now..

Same can be said for down here in alberta, usually the courts prefer for the father or ex to be notified but for "exparta" situations (emergencies), the courts will grant custody, or restraining orders, without the ex being any wiser. Child maintence is a different subject though Ive watched cases thrown out because the mother did not know where the father was to serve him and he would just start going in debt each month.
I personally did not have to serve my ex paper work to go for parenting (custody), didn't know where he is, knew his parents address and was going to ask to serve them certified mail, but because of a exparta order that had been in effect in the past, lack of knowledge of were he is and no contact in over 2 and half yrs the courts granted me everything I asked for.

N0help4u · Aug 21, 2008, 08:41 AM

Since his name is on nothing you really could get him for kidnapping.
You need to tell the police that he had him for a visit and he has no legal rights to keep him and everything about how he isn't even on the birth certificate or anything. If you at all possibly are able maybe you should just make a surprise visit to California and take their local police to his house. Make sure you have your sons birth certificate and your ID with you.

And no it is not true that you can not go and get your son. He has no rights to him until he goes to court and establishes paternity and gets custody/visitation orders.

dad5787 · Aug 21, 2008, 08:45 AM

Based upon your outline, you may want to contact the FBI as your child has been taken across state lines. Also, him mom may be an accomplice because she took him there. If this man is not the father, why did you let him mom take your son?

Please do not wait and call them ASAP. This can have an impact on the outcome.

ScottGem · Aug 21, 2008, 08:58 AM

First, please use the Answer This Question, Quote User or Post Quick Answer options to follow-up, Do not start a new thread. I've merged the threads for you.

I stand by the advice I originally gave you. At this point in time the father has NO legal standing since he's not on the birth certificate and there is no court order.

Contacting the FBI is not a bad idea. They can at least let you know what you have to do. At best they will help you regain custody. You should still start the ball rolling on formalizing custody. You do this where YOU live. If the father needs to appear let him make arrangements to appear. As soon as you have filed the paperwork, then go to the FBI and see what they say.

But since he has no legal standing and you have a birth certificate that proves that, you should be able to get local police to accompany you to recover the child. I don't know what advice the father is getting but its very bad advice. What he should have done was file his own petition for custody which would have involved a paternity test. Most likely, if he was proven the father, he could have gotten joint custody with visitation rights. Now that he has taken the law into his own hands, the possibilities are less.

mekia · Aug 21, 2008, 08:58 AM

He is the father he was not present when I had him to sign the birth certificate, he had moved to California. Me and his mom don't get along because she wants to raise the baby. So when I let him visit his dad she went behind my back and took the baby for 3 weeks. I had no idea. She returned him yesterday but the dad is saying I can't get him and we will have to go to family court in Cali, but me and my son live in MN. He said he is going to get a paternity test today too. I am in contact with both California court and Minnesota and they both are saying he has to file for custody where the child resides.

When I went there a lawyer did draw up papers saying that he had the power of attorney while the child was with him. So he is telling me he has those papers and that's why I can't come take the child.

Also I checked into filing full custody papers and they said the recognition of parentage had to be signed in order to start the process I let the clerk no that he did not sign that so she told me it was need to file full custody. And to be frank I can't afford a attorney at this moment It'l be a week before I can get the money together for me to get to California.

N0help4u · Aug 21, 2008, 09:10 AM

The point is though that whether he is the father or not since his name is not on the birth certificate he needs to now prove he is the father for him to have any legal standing so as we have been saying you need to get the authorities involved at getting your son back.
You need to go to court and file custody and go through the whole legal process before you even allow him to see your son again.

I do not know how much rights he has to keep your son if you did power of attorney papers for him. You need to get your son asap because those papers may hold enough weight that the longer he has your son the harder it is to get him back.
I am not sure but you really do need to do whatever it takes to get him back asap anyway no matter what.

If you are low income you can fill out papers at the family court and they will assign you a free defender

ScottGem · Aug 21, 2008, 10:45 AM

You have received some very good advice here and you are ignoring it. Why is that?

A power of attorney has no bearing in a case like this. A Power of Attorney is given by someone to allow another person to act for them if they become incapacitated. Your son is a minor so can't grant POA to someone. What you may have signed was a temporary guardianship.

You really have gone about this in all the wrong ways. You need a copy of whatever document you signed. You need to establish residence. You need to file for custody. You can't afford NOT to have an attorney at this point.

JudyKayTee · Aug 21, 2008, 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by mekia

He is the father he was not present when I had him to sign the birth certificate, he had moved to California. Me and his mom dont get along because she wants to raise the baby. So when I let him visit his dad she went behind my back and took the baby for 3 weeks. I had no idea. She returned him yesterday but the dad is saying I can't get him and we will have to go to family court in Cali, but me and my son live in MN. He said he is going to get a paternity test today too. I am in contact with both California court and Minnesota and they both are saying he has to file for custody where the child resides.

When I went there a lawyer did draw up papers saying that he had the power of attorney while the child was with him. So he is telling me he has those papers and thats why I can't come take the child.

Also I checked into filing full custody papers and they said the recognition of parentage had to be signed in order to start the process I let the clerk no that he did not sign that so she told me it was need to file full custody. And to be frank I can't afford a attorney at this moment It'l be a week before I can get the money together for me to get to California.

A Power of Attorney has absolutely nothing to do with custody - I would get myself into family court as soon as possible and ask for some qualified in family law in your area to take a look at this situation and make some recommendations.

How long has the child been gone? This is not going to reflect well on you - particularly if you claim the father and his mother are both (or one or the other) unstable and you still let him take the child.

I'd get moving -