[Stubits]

We purchased a home in Washington, DC in May of this year. The home had been flipped but the renovation work seemed well done. We had two inspections done and both inspectors thought the house was great. As part of the renovation, the "flipper" added a bathroom to the basement, as well as a laundry closet. It seemed nice and well done, everything seemed to function properly, etc.

We have begun some additional renovation work on the basement and much to our dismay, we discovered that the plumbing was done absolutely incorrectly and not to code, furthermore, no inspector would have signed off on these errors, as such the work was done illegally. To make the story short, the washer drain and shower were not properly vented or trapped (thereby allowing dangerous sewer gasses into the home) and none of the plumbing fixtures were properly vented (which would negatively impact the traps causing sewer gases to enter the home). Our plumber has torn out the bad work and is currently working to repair it and bring it up to code. Many of the PVC piping used were not glued together at all, which would result in the work simply falling apart over time, some of the PVC was heated (read: charred) to bend the piping; this is simply unheard of, restricts flow of water and weakens the integrity of the pipe.

We feel as though we contracted to purchase a home with two bathrooms, but ended up with one bathroom and one pile of plumbing supplies. We do not feel that they upheld their end of the deal and further, that they are in violation of our sales contract. DC law requires all plumbing to be operational and in this case, while indeed water did run and drain, it was not operational in that sewer gasses have been entering the home.

We would like to take the responsible parties to court. Damages are in the area of $3,000, so we would prefer to go to small claims court. Does it appear as though we have a case? Is it both a reasonable and legal expectation that such work is done properly?

Thanks!

[froggy7]

Did you check that permits were pulled for the additions when you did your inspection? If not, did the seller say that there were permits?

[rockinmommy]

We would like to take the responsible parties to court. Damages are in the area of $3,000, so we would prefer to go to small claims court. Does it appear as though we have a case? Is it both a reasonable and legal expectation that such work is done properly?

Thanks!

In my opinion, at this point the responsible party is/are the inspectors who you hired prior to purchasing the house. From your description it sounds like issues that they definitely should have caught. Have you contacted them?

The issue you would most likely have going after the "flipper" is that they never lived in the home, so they can legally, honestly claim that they were unaware of the issues. You would have to PROVE that they KNEW that stuff didn't work and passed it off as working. That's nearly impossible to prove.

[twinkiedooter]

The house inspectors definitely should have caught this fiasco plumbing job and reported such to you knowing the house was a flipper. Have you contacted an attorney about this or do you plan on suing these guys yourself?

[froggy7]

Would this really have been apparent to the inspector? It sounds like a lot of it was hidden behind the walls. I'm still curious about whether the buyer checked to see if there were permits pulled for the addition. If they didn't check the permits themselves, doesn't that put at least some of the blame on them? I know that I had my broker go check and see if the patio cover on my new spot had been permitted. (It hadn't been when built, but got an as-built permit instead.)

[rockinmommy]

Would this really have been apparent to the inspector?

Yes, absolutely. To a professional inspector it should have been. If it wasn't obvious to pipes behind walls, etc, they should have noticed missing vent pipes when they inspected the roof. I think they should have caught it, or at least questioned it.

[Stubits]

There is no way this would have been apparent to the inspector, unfortunately. There was a vent pipe running through the roof and in fact running straight through the bathroom, they just opted not to connect the plumbing to it.

We did not check to see if permits had been pulled for the work that had been done. We are first time home buyers, we weren't advised to do so by our agent and simply did not think to do so.

In DC, the regional sales contract indicates that the seller warrants that heating, cooling, appliances, electrical and plumbing are in "normal working order." Our plumbing was not in normal working order as part of the job of a plumbing system is to keep sewer gases out of the home.

The seller did not live in the house, that is correct, but they did contract to have the bathroom installed, as previously, there was not one there before. The inadequacy of the work would have been apparent to anyone, let alone professional real estate developers. If they did not notice, it is because they did not even look.

Any thoughts?

[ScottGem]

We did not check to see if permits had been pulled for the work that had been done. We are first time home buyers, we weren't advised to do so by our agent and simply did not think to do so.

This is going to be a major sticking point in your case. All houses need to have any remodeling work approved by an inspector who issues a certificate of occupancy. If you did not get the COs that's your fault.

The seller did not live in the house, that is correct, but they did contract to have the bathroom installed, as previously, there was not one there before.

If they contracted with someone to do the work, then they can, in turn, sue the contractor for shoddy work.

The inadequacy of the work would have been apparent to anyone, let alone professional real estate developers. If they did not notice, it is because they did not even look.

You say the inadequacy would hjave been apparent to anyone, yet you say it wouldn't have been apparent to your inspectors. Can't have it both ways.

Since small claims court doesn't cost much, it won't hurt too much to try. But not getting the COs may sink you.

[rockinmommy]

The seller did not live in the house, that is correct, but they did contract to have the bathroom installed, as previously, there was not one there before. The inadequacy of the work would have been apparent to anyone, let alone professional real estate developers. If they did not notice, it is because they did not even look.

Any thoughts?

My thoughts are that if the inadequacy would have been apparent to anyone then it should/would have been apparent to professional inspectors, just as you claim it should have to the seller. That's my first thought.

Second thought, you will have to PROVE (or get a really sympathetic judge) that the sellers KNEW of the problem. You can't just say or prove that they didn't check it out thoroughly enough. You have to prove that they KNEW it was like that and didn't rectify it before selling.

Scott's right, you can try it in small claims, but from cases just like this that I've sat there and listened to I don't think you'll win.

If you go after the inspector their insurance will pay out, not them out of their pocket.

[speedball1]

There's enough blame to go around. I would get a sharp plumber in to access the damage and get a writem notarized and signed statement. I would then go after both the inspectors AND the person, (I can 't call him a plumber) that left you with one of the worst plumbing jobs this site has ever had a question about. Good luck, Tom

[Stubits]

Tom-

Just for my own edification, how could the inspectors have known about these problems, they seemed very well hidden under the walls?

[speedball1]

Tom-

Just for my own edification, how could the inspectors have known about these problems, they seemed very well hidden under the walls?

Well Stubby,
Were I a inspector the "S" trap in your kitchen sink would have clued me in to take a much closer look at the rest of the plumbing job or at the very least inform you that the plumber installed a illegal trap so you wouldn't think everything was hunky-doory. If the plumber didn't pull a permit or get a final inspection then he's legally and financially responsible for the repair of the shoddy job that he installed. Good luck and I hope you nail the incompetent @#$%%&^*! Tom

[Stubits]

You're awesome Tom! Thanks so much!

[froggy7]

Of course, I do have to wonder if the plumbing job really was bad, or is the current plumber just trying to pad his bill? There's always more than one side to a story.

[Stubits]

The plumbing woes are REALLY apparent once the walls were opened up, no doubts at all on that.