[Wondergirl]

Now, Jesus is God and perfect man. So when Satan tempted Him to commit sin, it was as though someone were tempting me with cantaloupe.

If that's the case, then Jesus really wasn't tempted, didn't think to himself, "Should I or shouldn't I?" It was "No way" from the get-go. No temptation.

[De Maria]

If that's the case, then Jesus really wasn't tempted, didn't think to himself, "Should I or shouldn't I?" It was "No way" from the get-go. No temptation.

That is what I believe.

I'm willing to inspect any Scripture you have which leads you to a contrary opinion however.

James 1 14 But every man is tempted by his own concupiscence, being drawn away and allured.

Did Jesus have concupiscence?

[Wondergirl]

That is what I believe.

I'm willing to inspect any Scripture you have which leads you to a contrary opinion however.

James 1 14 But every man is tempted by his own concupiscence, being drawn away and allured.

Did Jesus have concupiscence?

My Bible (RSV) uses the word "desire." The next verse says, "Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin...." Heb 2:18 tells us that "he himself has suffered and been tempted" and Heb. 4:15 says "[we have] one who in every respect has been tempted as we are... " Jesus was true God and true man, the latter meaning he was up against the same temptations as we are.

[Tj3]

The eternal sacrifice is Jesus.

Then it is Jesus who you claim to sacrifice in each Mass. Over and over again.

[N0help4u]

I believe it first means to accept Jesus (salvation) and when you are born again your eyes are open to the corruption and lies of this world and you see the truth. Then you are set free from man's traditions and you see the truth rather than following man [even men of religion if they are teaching man's doctrine] You are set free in your spirit and have discernment.
Too many Christians are blind sheep being led astray by the corruption and deceptions of this world.

[Peter Wilson]

Cogs, it is very exciting to hear that you are considering receiving the fullness of the Spirit.
In Mark 4
A Lamp on a Stand

21He said to them, "Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bowl or a bed? Instead, don't you put it on its stand?
22For whatever is hidden is meant to be disclosed, and whatever is concealed is meant to be brought out into the open. 23If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear."
24"Consider carefully what you hear," he continued. "With the measure you use, it will be measured to you—and even more.
25Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him."

Indeed, consider what you hear, if you say God can only do this much, or put Him in a box that you can handle, then that is all he will be to you.
As for me, I knocked down all the walls of unbelief and doubt as far as to the right, the left, in front and behind, as high and as low as is possible, and submit myself to God and whatever He wants to show me.
I used to believe that God would only do this or that and put limits on His power.
If you want to speak in tongues, just submit your tongue to God and just do it!
You don't go into a trance or anything, it's just a prayer language, (1 Cor.14)
God is Spirit and desires all to worship Him in Spirit and truth. (John 4:24)
(1 Cor.14:14)
It is a prayer language that only God can understand, the enemy (the devil) cannot understand it!
It is like a secret code language the Holy Spirit with our spirit enables us to speak.
Being baptized, is symbolizing Christ's burial and resurrection, (Romans 6)
We do it to follow His example and show obedience.
To be Born again, is from God alone.
John 1
12Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
13children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband's will, but born of God.

Our spirit is immersed into the Holy Spirit. And we we become one with God.
we become alive to God and the Holy Spirit makes us aware of sin and begins to change us from the inside out.


John 14
Role of the Spirit
16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

When you first believe, the Holy Spirit is with you, when you submit yourself completely to God from your heart, then you open the door for the Holy Spirit to enter.
It is His job to teach you all things.
John14
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 16
Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.


In 1 John 2
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

The anointing is the Holy Spirit.
He will teach you all things. Don't believe any-one, ask the Holy spirit to confirm all that you have heard from me or anybody else.
If you can't confirm it in the word of God, then discard it.
As far as sin is concerned, you have feelings, these want to be satisfied, the devil knows man's weakness and his pride.
He knows how to tempt us as he has his demons watching us at all times.
If we are tempted, then that is not a sin, if we are led away by that temptation, and fulfil that desire, then that is a sin. (That is, if that desire is in ordinate lust or greed or the other lusts mentioned in Galatians 5)

Life by the Spirit
16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want.
18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires.
5Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

God is not against feelings, but He wants you to desire the higher feelings, like love, peace , joy etc.
As the others on this forum can attest, when the Joy of the Lord comes upon you, you laugh and cry at the same time.
In Nehemiah 8:10
Nehemiah said, "Go and enjoy choice food and sweet drinks, and send some to those who have nothing prepared. This day is sacred to our Lord. Do not grieve, for the joy of the LORD is your strength."

If your rejoicing in the Lord all the time , speaking to yourselves in psalms hymns and spiritual songs, it doesn't give the devil a foothold, that's how you resist temptation.
If you sin , just confess your sin to Jesus, God is not angry, sin doesn't worry Him, He's got it covered!
If you confess your sin, then He will forgive you and wash you from an evil conscience.
If you have thoughts of condemnation after you sin, that is the accuser (satan's name means accuser), don't even listen to him, tell him to shut up and get out!
When you confess your sin, you are coming into agreement with God, and He likes that!
If you feel condemned after you confess your sin, then you believe the accuser and stand with him, against God.
Better to believe God and receive forgiveness and rejoice!

Bless you heaps, Jesus said that all the angels in heaven rejoice when one sinner repents.

Peace bro'!
:)

[N0help4u]

I am about ready to burn my Bible according to THE Church being the final authority!
What good is the Bible when THE Church trumps it with things that go contrary to the Bible teachings!!

[tsila1777]

He said 'take no thought saying…' sin first comes as a thought; we can cancel that thought with the word of God. You cannot think one thing while saying another. Try it. You cannot do it. I do not know if the devil spoke to Jesus in an audible voice or not, but the way the devil speaks to us is in our thought life.


Actually, you can. I've done it before. Its called a Freudian slip. When out of your mouth comes what you really believe rather than what you intend to say.

That is not at all what I meant. In your mind start counting to 20 and then at the same time say the names of the months. If you say you can do both at the same time without forgetting to count, I will believe you. But you will be the first person I have ever heard of that can do that.

We tried this at church one day, and no one was able to do it.

IF the devil is saying things in your mind of guilt, shame or unbelief, temptations, start saying the Word out loud and that will drown out the voice of the devil in your mind.



blessings

[N0help4u]

Tsila
The Bible has several verses that say out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks.

James 3
3Behold, we put bits in the horses' mouths, that they may obey us; and we turn about their whole body.
4Behold also the ships, which though they be so great, and are driven of fierce winds, yet are they turned about with a very small helm, whithersoever the governor listeth.
5Even so the tongue is a little member, and boasteth great things. Behold, how great a matter a little fire kindleth!
6And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell.
7For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?
12Can the fig tree, my brethren, bear olive berries? Either a vine, figs? So can no fountain both yield salt water and fresh.

Calvary Fellowship » Out of the Abundance of the Heart

[tsila1777]

This is true. So we do need the Word of God in out hearts in order to speak it out of our mouths. And we need the Holy Spirit to help us control our tongue so that we speak blessings and good things.

Blessings to you

[De Maria]

My Bible (RSV) uses the word "desire." The next verse says, "Then desire when it has conceived gives birth to sin...." Heb 2:18 tells us that "he himself has suffered and been tempted" and Heb. 4:15 says "[we have] one who in every respect has been tempted as we are..." Jesus was true God and true man, the latter meaning he was up against the same temptations as we are.

Did the evil well up from within Jesus?

Mark 7 23 All these evil things come from within, and defile a man.

[Tj3]

I am about ready to burn my Bible according to THE Church being the final authority!
What good is the Bible when THE Church trumps it with things that go contrary to the Bible teachings!!!!

We have to decide what our authority and standard of truth is - is it an institution of man? Or is it God's word.

[De Maria]

Then it is Jesus who you claim to sacrifice in each Mass. Over and over again.

Nope. Jesus was only sacrificed once. But He continues the same sacrifice in heaven.

Apocalypse 5 6 And I saw: and behold in the midst of the throne and of the four living creatures, and in the midst of the ancients, a Lamb standing as it were slain, having seven horns and seven eyes: which are the seven Spirits of God, sent forth into all the earth.

I get it. You don't know anything about the nature of Jewish sacrifices.

Remember, Jesus is our Pasch:

1 Corinthians 5 7 Purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new paste, as you are unleavened. For Christ our pasch is sacrificed.

After the lamb was sacrificed, the High Priest would enters the temple and offers the sacrifice to God:

Heb 9 6 Now these things being thus ordered, into the first tabernacle the priests indeed always entered, accomplishing the offices of sacrifices. 7 But into the second, the high priest alone, once a year: not without blood, which he offereth for his own, and the people's ignorance:

Do you understand that if Jesus did not enter the heavenly temple and offer the Sacrifice to God, it would not matter that Jesus was crucified on the Cross. It is the offering of the Sacrifice which accomplishes the sacrifice.

And Jesus does not offer the sacrifice IN time but in eternity. That is why it is a once for all sacrifice:

Heb 9
11 But Christ, being come an high priest of the good things to come, by a greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hand, that is, not of this creation: 12 Neither by the blood of goats, or of calves, but by his own blood, entered once into the holies, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and of oxen, and the ashes of an heifer being sprinkled, sanctify such as are defiled, to the cleansing of the flesh: 14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who by the Holy Ghost offered himself unspotted unto God, cleanse our conscience from dead works, to serve the living God?

If anyone ever wondered, this is why it was imperative for Him to come before the Father:
John 20 17 Jesus saith to her: Do not touch me, for I am not yet ascended to my Father. But go to my brethren, and say to them: I ascend to my Father and to your Father, to my God and your God.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

We have to decide what our authority and standard of truth is - is it an institution of man? Or is it God's word.

The Church was established by God.
Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[N0help4u]

I have yet to see the Biblical connection that proves Peter started the RCC.
I mean I can say I went to Washington D.C. and spent a year and even had a tour of the White House and that would not make me the President of the U.S.A.

[De Maria]

I am about ready to burn my Bible according to THE Church being the final authority!
What good is the Bible when THE Church trumps it with things that go contrary to the Bible teachings!!!!

That is the Protestant problem. The Bible says, don't lean on your own understanding and obey the Church and calls the Church the Pillar of Truth.

But, since you don't want to obey the Church, but you want to obey your own inclinations, you would rather discard the Bible than obey it.

I would rather obey the Bible and because the Bible says so, I obey the Church and my leaders within the Church. I believe this is the more Biblical attitude.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[N0help4u]

BUT again WHAT CHURCH... I have yet to see where it is the Catholic church.

Why so you say you would rather obey the Bible to try and prove the RCC IS the Biblical church yet you insist the RCC is to be believed over the Bible??
Seems like a lot of picking and choosing to me!

[cogs]

Cogs, it is very exciting to hear that you are considering receiving the fullness of the Spirit.
...(1 Cor.14:14)
It is a prayer language that only God can understand, the enemy (the devil) cannot understand it!
It is like a secret code language the the Holy Spirit with our spirit enables us to speak.
Being baptized, is symbolizing Christ's burial and resurrection, (Romans 6)
We do it to follow His example and show obedience.
Our spirit is immersed into the Holy Spirit. and we we become one with God.
we become alive to God and the Holy Spirit makes us aware of sin and begins to change us from the inside out.


John 14
Role of the Spirit
16"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17that is the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, but you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.

When you first believe, the Holy Spirit is with you, when you submit yourself completely to God from your heart, then you open the door for the Holy Spirit to enter.
It is His job to teach you all things.
John14
26But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you.

John 16
Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you.
8When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt in regard to sin and righteousness and judgment:
9in regard to sin, because men do not believe in me;
10in regard to righteousness, because I am going to the Father, where you can see me no longer;
11and in regard to judgment, because the prince of this world now stands condemned.
12"I have much more to say to you, more than you can now bear.
13But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all truth. He will not speak on his own; he will speak only what he hears, and he will tell you what is yet to come.
14He will bring glory to me by taking from what is mine and making it known to you.
15All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you.

In 1 John 2
26I am writing these things to you about those who are trying to lead you astray. 27As for you, the anointing you received from him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about all things and as that anointing is real, not counterfeit—just as it has taught you, remain in him.

The anointing is the Holy Spirit.
He will teach you all things.

I understand the meaning of baptism. But, as in this scripture, there's no qualification for baptism, in order to receive the gift of the holy spirit from the father. I totally agree with you about the holy spirit making us aware of sin and changing us from the inside out. When jesus said he would lead us into all truth, then what is untrue in us is made evident, and to be ejected from our spirit and lifestyle. That, peter, and I say this is all love and respect, is what is the true baptism, because it does purify us from that which does not belong in us.

Mar 1:8 I baptized you in water; But he shall baptize you in the Holy Spirit. ASV

I am not saying in any way that people cannot be baptized with water. I think even some people think that the water has some power in it, that literally changes our insides. With water, though, this is not my experience, knowing the laws of physics. But that is not the point.
I was a little disappointed, cause I saw that you were excited for me, but then I realized it was not because I believed like you do, that the holy spirit is now changing me from the inside out. But thank you for reading my posts, and thank you for yours.

[De Maria]

BUT again WHAT CHURCH...

That is the decision you have to make. I can only tell you which decision I made and why.

I have yet to see where it is the Catholic church.

Perhaps because you don't know as much about the Catholic Church as I.

For instance, I know that the only Church that gives daily Communion is the Catholic Church:

Luke 11 3 Give us this day our daily bread.

Acts 2 46 And continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they took their meat with gladness and simplicity of heart;

The Catholic Church is the only Church which steps in faith and accepts her role as Pillar of Truth:

1 Timothy 3 15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

The Catholic Church is the only one that recognizes that Jesus named Simon His representative and in confirmation of that fact, gave Him a name which previously referred to God alone:

Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

The Catholic Church accepts the responsibility of binding and losing men from sins:

John 20 23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.

Why so you say you would rather obey the Bible to try and prove the RCC IS the Biblical church yet you insist the RCC is to be believed over the Bible??
Seems like a lot of picking and choosing to me!

Well yes. I pick the Catholic Church's interpretation over yours.

Like so many Protestants, you believe that your interpretation of the Bible is equivalent with Scripture. That is rather arrogant. And Jesus has said:

Matthew 23 12 And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be humbled: and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.

We on the other hand, accept the Church's interpretation before our own. And when we do interpret it is in obedience to the parameters stated by the Catholic Church which in Scripture is called our Pillar of Truth.

You may select another Church. And that is fine. But you have no Scriptural grounds to tell me not to believe the Church.

Sincerely,

De Maria

[De Maria]

I have yet to see the Biblical connection that proves Peter started the RCC.

Peter didn't. Jesus did.

Matthew 16 18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

I mean I can say I went to Washington D.C. and spent a year and even had a tour of the White House and that would not make me the President of the U.S.A.

Nor could you find that information in the Scriptures. The fact that you went to Washington would be found only in your personal notes and perhaps the business receipts of the companies you engaged for your travel.

In the same way, St. Peter's Bishopric in Rome is not mentioned in the Scriptures. But it is mentioned in Church tradition, Church history, in Roman history and in world history.

Sincerely,

De Maria