[ordinaryguy]

That's a matter of opinion for sure, but one resolved quite easily with my theology....

.... but my personal study of history leads me to believe...

It's refreshing that you acknowledge that your conclusions are based on your theology, and your personal study of history. I respect that.

[ordinaryguy]

The statement really has nothing to do with Christians it is directed toward people/religions that claim he was not who he claimed to be.

Yeah the statement means that if Jesus was not exactly what he claims to be then the ones that say he was not are saying he was a liar basically.
Same as if somebody walked up to you and said they were the Messiah and you did not believe he was the Messiah you would have to call him a liar, lunatic or nut for making such a claim.

Excuse me, but I think you're still missing my point, which is that we don't really know what Jesus himself claimed to be. All we have is a record created by people who had a vested interest in promoting him, not as just a prophet and teacher, but as the Son of God. I think he was probably much more modest about his mission than they were.

[ScottRC]

It's refreshing that you acknowledge that your conclusions are based on your theology, and your personal study of history. I respect that.

Why thank you my friend... I think it is important to always know that when it comes to faith, we are all just giving our opinions... there is no "proof" as in the sciences, but I still think we should all search for truth.

[talaniman]

One of the reasons I never put anyone, or anything, between me and a personal relationship with the God that I understand, is people tend to screw it up, with their opinions, and agendas. I try to keep it real simple.

Lets be honest, EVERYONE THINKS THEIR RIGHT.

[Alty]

One of the reasons I never put anyone, or anything, between me and a personal relationship with the God that I understand, is people tend to screw it up, with their opinions, and agendas. I try to keep it real simple.

Lets be honest, EVERYONE THINKS THEIR RIGHT.

Very true Tal, very true. You're right. ;) A greenie for you. :D

[firmbeliever]

All you actually did in that statement was separating the 3 mono-theistic religions from all others, and declare them all 3 to be different versions describing one and the same entity.
Besides that your selection makes all other religions invalid (without providing reasoning why), I do not think that many christians and jews will agree that their god is one the same as yours, in view of the different guidance it provides.
Maybe you can explain how you see that a little more clearly.

:)

·

It isn't just the three monotheistic faiths I meant,but I did emphasise on them.I do believe that monotheism was the origin of polytheism.

If one was to compare even the polythesitic faiths like Hinduism,their basic belief is a single Deity with many manifestations.Their scripture is considered one of the oldest.

Their basic beliefs according to their scriptures speak of a Single Deity,just like the Karan tribe of Burma(links at the end of my answer to articles on monotheism & polytheism)

-------------------------
I have taken these verses of the Gita from different resources and if there be any mistakes, please correct them (I would higly appreciate it)
“He who is free from delusion, and knows me as the supreme Reality, knows all that can be known. Therefore he adores me with his whole heart.” (Bhagavad Gita 15:19)

“There are two kinds of personality in this world, the mortal and the immortal. The personality of all creatures is mortal. The personality of God is said to be immortal. It is the same for ever.” (Bhagavad Gita 15:16)

“A man of faith, absorbed in faith, his senses controlled, attains knowledge, and, knowledge attained, quickly finds supreme peace. But the ignorant man, who is without faith, goes doubting to destruction. For the doubting self there is neither this world, nor the next, nor joy.”
- Bhagavad Gita 4.39-40

"If men thought of God as much as they think of the world, who would not attain liberation (moksha)." - Maitri Upanishad 6.24.

“May God come and reside in our hearts;
May our body be the temple of God.
May He feed freely upon the harvest of our actions as the cows graze in the pasture.
May we reap the harvest of our life and dedicate all at His feet,
May we ever remain His true servants.”
- Rig Veda 1.91.13

“May the bounteous fire divine, consume them with his fiercely glowing sharp jaws like flames, who disregard the commandments and steadfast laws of most venerable and sagacious Lord.
(Rigveda 4:5:4)

“Praise Him who is the matchless and alone.”(Hymns of Rigveda - Rigveda, VI, 45-16

“He who knows Me as the unborn, as the beginning-less, as the Supreme Lord of all the Worlds.”
(Bhagvad Gita 10:3)
----------------------------------------------

Regarding Jesus(alaihi salaam)-
My belief is that he was very special,chosen by the Almighty. His teachings would be similar to the older revelations because he was sent to confirm what had come before and to emphasise and guide those who may have gone astray in their monotheism.

And yes I do believe in his descent into this world sometime in the future.

Lunatic,Liar or any other degrading terms would not be part of a description I would use for either Moses(alaihi salaam) or Jesus(alaihi salaam) or for that matter any of the Prophets/Messengers mentioned in the Bible or Torah.

I apologise to any who may feel offended,which is not my intention,just stating my beliefs.

Regarding Jewish beliefs,I have a thread on the Judaism board and I have found that my faith has so many similarities to theirs,it has to have come from the same source as all other previous revelations.


From Monotheism to Polytheism
MONOTHEISM

[N0help4u]

Lunatic,Liar or any other degrading terms would not be part of a description I would use for either Moses(alaihi salaam) or Jesus(alaihi salaam) or for that matter any of the Prophets/Messengers mentioned in the Bible or Torah.

Then that means you believe their claims :D

[firmbeliever]

Lunatic,Liar or any other degrading terms would not be part of a description I would use for either Moses(alaihi salaam) or Jesus(alaihi salaam) or for that matter any of the Prophets/Messengers mentioned in the Bible or Torah.

Then that means you believe their claims :D

:) What claims?

[N0help4u]

That Jesus, Moses and the Prophets/messengers WERE who they said they were.

[firmbeliever]

Yes I do believe they were special,just not divine or demi gods.

[N0help4u]

Then you believe what they claim which means you do not see them as liars, lunatics or nutcases.

[talaniman]

The way all the persons you have mentioned have made such a big mark in the lives of people, and history itself, even to this day, is to profound to ignore. Special definitely, divine??

There is a very big world out here and every culture on earth has practically the same story of deities and traditions, some even earlier than the region most claim to be the home of their beliefs.

Man is good for one thing though, when he disagrees, he takes his self across the street, starts yet another religion, and blast those that disagree with him, sadly that's all our history's, as humans.

[firmbeliever]

The way all the persons you have mentioned have made such a big mark in the lives of people, and history itself, even to this day, is to profound to ignore. Special definitely, divine???????????

There is a very big world out here and every culture on earth has practically the same story of deities and traditions, some even earlier than the region most claim to be the home of their beliefs.

Man is good for one thing though, when he disagrees, he takes his self across the street, starts yet another religion, and blast those that disagree with him, sadly thats all our history's, as humans.

Exact reason why I believe it is man tampering that led to different religions when in fact the message was the same each time.. One Almighty.

Every culture having similar stories can't be coincidence,obviously a messenger sent from the divine will have similar signs and/or characteristics,which people of later generations since the Messenger passed away may have added to or subtracted from the original.

[Alty]

The way all the persons you have mentioned have made such a big mark in the lives of people, and history itself, even to this day, is to profound to ignore. Special definitely, divine???????????

There is a very big world out here and every culture on earth has practically the same story of deities and traditions, some even earlier than the region most claim to be the home of their beliefs.

Man is good for one thing though, when he disagrees, he takes his self across the street, starts yet another religion, and blast those that disagree with him, sadly thats all our history's, as humans.

So what is right? What is true?

My thoughts on this, it matters not what one believes but how one lives their life. If God exists, if there is an almighty God then as long as you are good, kind, caring, understanding, excepting of others flaws, and aware of your own, then it doesn't matter if you believe, or what you believe.

If there is a heaven, then do your really have to spend your life worshipping in order to be let in? Isn't being a good human being the most important thing?

I have no desire for "religion", no need to hear mans views on my beliefs.

I understand why people congregate to Church, I understand the sense of belonging, the desire to be with like minded people. But I do not know one person who feels the same way I do. Is anyone out there like me? I'm sure there is, but I haven't met them. If I do would I start a religion to preach my beliefs? No. It's still my opinion, and just because others share that opinion, that doesn't mean we're right.

I guess none of us will know until we die, and unfortunately we cannot share what is real with anyone after that.

I continue in my beliefs, not because I think I'm right, but because what I believe works for me and my family.

[N0help4u]

From what I can see everybody seems to be sort of hard wired to believe what they believe and you have to take it from there. The Bible has several verses that say if you seek God and draw closer to him he will draw closer to you and open your eyes and heart so that is all you really can do.

[Credendovidis]

I do believe that monotheism was the origin of polytheism.

Interesting. May I ask WHY you believe that? Human history tells us that polytheism was with us most of our history, and that all present monotheistic religions appeared somewhere between 2000 BC to 632 AD - so much later. So polytheism is at the origin of monotheism.

Note that Hinduism may be the oldest organized religion, but Paganism as a polytheistic religion reaches as far back as Paleolithic times : 30,000 BC.

:rolleyes:

·

[firmbeliever]

Crede,
Sorry but I have to say it is simply belief.
I am still looking around to explain my idea,but it seems most historical data is incomplete in the sense that the first man and his habits seem to be a bit of guess work as far his religious beliefs go.

EDIT:::
I am still reading articles like these.
Apologetics Press - Monotheism and the Origin of Religion

I have no doubt about my beliefs. Just cannot explain in scientific/historical terms how monotheism came before Polytheism or any other form of worship.

[Credendovidis]

Crede, Sorry but I have to say it is simply belief.
I am still looking around to explain my idea,but it seems most historical data is incomplete in the sense that the first man and his habits seem to be a bit of guess work as far his religious beliefs go.

No problem at all. You are free to believe whatever suits you, as far as I am concerned.
Note that the age of Paganism (some 30.000 years) carries historical and logical support, except of course from those who believe that the entire universe is not older than the creationist claimed 6300 years !

;)

·

[N0help4u]

The way I figure it at the beginning of the human race
According to the Bible
Adam and Eve KNEW God
The Jew's were the first and original
Then later in Genesis it talks about occult and pagan religions
And it also talks about the gentiles but does not state any religion

Of course that is the way I see it and therefore it is my belief and therefore it is based on my assumption and not OSE

[firmbeliever]

Weren't there others mentioned in the Bible after Adam before Moses and Jesus(peace be upon them all)?