[Tj3]

Well, it shouldn't seem odd to you at all.... you've all been educated by the same faith tradition and "stand fast and hold the traditions which you were taught".

You mean scripture.

[ScottRC]

No, I would be more inclined to pray for both of them. I would tend to trust in good mercy and assume both made it to Heaven. Especially pray for Joe!
The point is WE don’t determine who gets to Heaven and who doesn’t. Catholic thinking is to leave that to God’s merciful and just will.

Amen Joe...

[Tj3]

.... but it's a matter of making sure that your interpretation is in keeping with the Church.

Blessings.

No, scripture.

Men in the church can be wrong, but God's word is never wrong.

[Wondergirl]

Seems like all this deciding and praying could take up a lot of time and could get confusing--and be fruitless. Isn't there a Bible verse that says prayers for the dead are not necessary, that they already have been judged?

[Tj3]

Umm.... I already told you: faith.

Faith in what?

[Wondergirl]

WE don’t determine who gets to Heaven and who doesn’t. Catholic thinking is to leave that to God’s merciful and just will.

So then what's the point of praying for them?

[ScottRC]

Sndbay Scott is saying he would even pray for the ones that went to hell therefore he would not have to judge.

Correct!

I pray for everyone!

... and sometimes it's important to remember that there is no such thing as a "wasted prayer".:)

[Wondergirl]

I pray for everyone!

Why? Will this change God's mind?

[N0help4u]

Point two you got there!!
If they pray for them while in Purgatory where does it get the one in Purgatory anyway since they are going to heaven anyway?

Oh good point #1 was

Scott I am trying to reason out how you might determine who is going to hell and who is going to purgatory. You are saying you pray for those that go to purgatory. How do you JUDGE THAT?

Lev 19:15

Although that has been answered

[sndbay]

Sndbay Scott is saying he would even pray for the ones that went to hell therefore he would not have to judge.

And yet he said those determined in hell there is no help..? If there is no judgement on his part how was it determined? What prayer is said? One prayer for all or two different prayers?


Note we can not bring salvation to anyone... so why is purgatory a teaching?

[ScottRC]

Why?

Love.

Will this change God's mind?

Nope.

Thanks for asking.

[Wondergirl]

And yet he said those determined in hell there is no help..?? If there is no judgement on his part how was it determined? What prayer is said? One prayer for all or two different prayers?

I'm beginning to think all this praying for dead people is more for the pray-er than for the dead people. For instance, I didn't like alcoholic Uncle Joe when he was alive, so I pray for him after he dies so I feel better and less guilty about disliking him. Or I pray for sweet Aunt Maud who always baked cookies for me. She's probably in heaven now, but who knows. Wherever she is, I loved her a lot and praying for her makes me feel good.

[sndbay]

I'm beginning to think all this praying for dead people is more for the pray-er than for the dead people. For instance, I didn't like alcoholic Uncle Joe when he was alive, so I pray for him after he dies so I feel better and less guilty about disliking him. Or I pray for sweet Aunt Maud who always baked cookies for me. She's probably in heaven now, but who knows. Wherever she is, I loved her a lot and praying for her makes me feel good.

So all is done as an act of self indulgence? That's the reasoning?

[Wondergirl]

So all is done as an act of self indulgence? That's the reasoning?

We've been told we don't know where anyone is, so we pray for them all, but the praying won't necessarily change God's mind. So what is left? Scott had said to show love.

[N0help4u]

So all is done as an act of self indulgence? That's the reasoning?

YEP! That is what

ScottRC

Quote:

Why?
Love.

Quote:
Will this change God's mind?
Nope.

Thanks for asking.
__________________

... sounds like to me.

[sndbay]

We've been told we don't know where anyone is, so we pray for them all, but the praying won't necessarily change God's mind. So what is left? Scott had said to show love.

I am all for showing love and in the pureness of heart. But there comes a point when your faith, in the Grace of God, is to recognize and acknowlodge His balance of truth . God' Will being done.

One of the stories in the bible was in David who brought flaws to his people, and God asked Him what punishment David wanted to accept for doing all that he had done wrong. David turned the choice to God, knowing that God would be of mercy and grace. Trusting in God's decision rather then risking your own.

[JoeT777]

Joe, your statement of reason is that when he comes at the end of time to judge.. That is exactly so.. Christ will judge.

These aren't my words, but with fear and trembling I'm working out salvation though the Mystical Body of Christ, the Catholic Church (Cf. Phil 2:12)

I am asking how Scott reasons out that He himself can judge and make the decision to pray for who he determined went to hell or purgatory. And again scripture warns us not to judge... becuase we can be a stumbling block to ourselves and to whom we have judged. Plus scripture says you judge another ye can be condemned..

I can't speak for Scott, but I would respond by saying the Church doesn't “condemn” folk to Purgatory. If you read my post (-link-) carefully you'll see that it's not a place of condemnation; rather a state of being purified. If one selflessly loves God why object to a spiritual purification necessary to enter into a complete communion with God?

JoeT

[N0help4u]

What Sndbay means by condemning them to purgatory is a figure of speech.

If one selflessly loves God why object to a spiritual purification necessary to enter into a complete communion with God?

Why accept a place that is one step between what the Bible says to die in the body is to be present with Christ? Why add a step to one + one equals two?

[sndbay]

These aren’t my words, but with fear and trembling I’m working out salvation though the Mystical Body of Christ, the Catholic Church (Cf. Phil 2:12)

I can’t speak for Scott, but I would respond by saying the Church doesn’t “condemn” folk to Purgatory. If you read my post (-link-)carefully you’ll see that it’s not a place of condemnation; rather a state of being purified. If one selflessly loves God why object to a spiritual purification necessary to enter into a complete communion with God?

JoeT

Joe in all honesty it's because the rather a state of being purified already took place on the cross. At that moment finished... done.. That is what Chirst did.. To suggest differently or doing it again is to question the worthyness of what already took place.

[sndbay]

What Sndbay means by condemning them to purgatory is a figure of speech.

The statement I made is backed by scripture.. Should you judge another NO! .. lest ye be condemned.
James 5:9 Grudge not one against another, brethren, lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge standeth before the door.