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gottagetout · Jul 31, 2008, 12:19 AM

After my divorce in 2005 my ex quit his job and told me that I would never get a dime in child support. I then went to the Division of Child Support enforcement (AZ) to get help with obtaining my child support due. He proceeded to work "illegally" and is now in prison (has 1 more year). Last month I was served with papers from the Attorney General on behalf of the Division of Child Support Enforcement requesting a modification of the child support order to $0. Their evidence was that he was incarcerated. Doesn't my ex still have a legal financial responsibility to our child even though he can not pay it right now? How is it possible for an organization that is put forth to help people receive their child support get away with modifying for no support? Also, he will get out in about a year. My understanding is that you can not modify a child support order for two years unless it is a greater than 15% change. Anyone have any idea about this situations?

-btw-I DID file a response, a request for hearing and the date is set for Sept. What can I use to defend my situation against the attorney general... this is SUCH an injustice in my opinion.

stinawords · Jul 31, 2008, 07:20 AM

It is actually pretty common to have a reduction in support owed while a person is in jail or prison because there is no income. I haven't seen many cases of it completely going away to zero but the minimum due is more likely unless he was only ordered that much before.

gottagetout · Jul 31, 2008, 09:00 AM

I can understand a reduction but his amount owed per month was $450 and they are trying to modify it to $0/month. They actually based his amount due by the amount that he COULD (based on his previous hourly wage before he quit) possibly make since he quit his job when I left him so that they could not garnish his wages.

I am just wondering what they heck to say in court... I'm quite nervous about it since I will be "fighting" against the attorney general. Any idea how an organization that is supposed to help me collect would go against me like that? Any way that I could take them to court for doing this? What really upsets me is that I wonder how many single mothers has this happened to that didn't have any resources or means to "fight back" and now have no child support. I don't think that this organization should have the right to do that (mess with the amount I am owed). I want others to know that if they try to get help from this state organization that they could turn against them too.

twinkiedooter · Jul 31, 2008, 09:53 AM

If they do prevail at the hearing and get the support down to zero, you have no other alternative but to go to the county and sign up for help from them until he gets out of jail. You'll probably receive some money and depending on how many kids you have it could actually end up to be more than he should pay. Aid for Dependent Families and Food Stamps.

JudyKayTee · Jul 31, 2008, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by stinawords

It is actually pretty common to have a reduction in support owed while a person is in jail or prison because there is no income. I haven't seen many cases of it completly going away to zero but the minimum due is more likely unless he was only ordered that much before.

Right - I've seen it ordered down to zero during the length of the confinement and then brought up again after release.

The purpose (I believe) is so the confined person doesn't get released owing an enormous child support debt.

gottagetout · Jul 31, 2008, 11:14 AM

The problem that I have with that is his intentions were to NOT pay me and that's what led him to prison. I STILL have to feed and shelter out child-why should he not be held accountable for her because he was irresponsible. Also, I WAS receiving some money here and there from his mom through the clearinghouse. I don't understand why they would do that if I was receiving some and if they modify it I will most definitely never receive anything (for the duration of the sentence).

If they modify to zero will it automatically go back as soon as he gets out?

Since I make a decent amount of money (no where near a lot-just getting by with mtg payments), and don't normally qualify for assistance could I still get assistance because I am not getting childsupport from him and based on the fact that he's in there unable to contribute?

JudyKayTee · Jul 31, 2008, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by gottagetout

The problem that I have with that is his intentions were to NOT pay me and that's what led him to prison. I STILL have to feed and shelter out child-why should he not be held accountable for her because he was irresponsible. Also, I WAS receiving some money here and there from his mom through the clearinghouse. I don't understand why they would do that if I was receiving some and if they modify it I will most definately never receive anything (for the duration of the sentence).

If they modify to zero will it automatically go back as soon as he gets out?

Since I make a decent amount of money (no where near a lot-just getting by with mtg payments), and dont normally qualify for assistance could I still get assistance because I am not getting childsupport from him and based on the fact that he's in there unable to contribute?

His mother has no legal responsibility to pay his child support obligation. Child support is based on a percentage of his income - he currently has no income. He is being held responsible for his actions. That's why he's in prison. He would obviously rather be incarcerated than pay child support. He's, unfortunately, not the only father who feels that way.

No, if it's based on a percentage of his income it won't automatically go back to what it was - it will most probably be modified to a percentage of his income IF he has income.

If you could not get assistance because your income was too high based on your income and his child support and you no longer get money from him, I would think, yes, your total income has dropped and you would qualify. It's up to the State of Arizona to make that determination.

gottagetout · Jul 31, 2008, 02:50 PM

I understand that his mother has no legal responsibility to pay. I was just commenting that she was doing so - probably so that it would not be so much when he gets out.

Sorry that I did not specify but I didn't mean that it would go back to the same amount when he gets out-I am just wondering if I will have to file for it all over again or if the division, state, whatever would set it up again (with whatever %). If he is NOT working then they base the amount on a % of what he COULD make if he was working. I just do not want to have to file again when he gets out and then have to wait several months for it to be determined.

Fr_Chuck · Jul 31, 2008, 03:57 PM

Of course the other side can always ask for a lot of things does not mean you have to let them, that is why you fight in court. Depending on the state, but most that I know of set a min support to be paid at a min wage level if there is no income, but that is why we get lawyers and go to court

asking · Jul 31, 2008, 04:14 PM

So he went to jail BECAUSE of not paying child support? Or for something else? It does seem pointless for the state to "help" your child by putting the father in jail (and reducing support to 0). I though they could garnish his income. Why was he put in jail?
Just Asking

JudyKayTee · Jul 31, 2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by asking

So he went to jail BECAUSE of not paying child support? or for something else? It does seem pointless for the state to "help" your child by putting the father in jail (and reducing support to 0). I though they could garnish his income. Why was he put in jail?
Just Asking

OP says he refused to pay support and was working illegally, which I took to mean he was getting paid off the books and got turned in and sent to jail for avoiding child support.

The good news may be that OP couldn't collect benefits because her "paper" income (between her employment and the child support she was supposed to be getting) put her over the income limit. With an order of no support she can re-file for benefits.

Looks like the State couldn't find his income - probably every time they found him he quit and moved on. Or else worked off the books.

I don't know what the answer is - maybe jail will straighten him out but maybe it won't.

stinawords · Jul 31, 2008, 05:26 PM

Have you retained a lawyer yet? Once he gets out you may have to refile because what he "could" make will usually be less than what he was making so as someone already pointed out it is based off minimum wage. That amount would still help I understand you are frustrated but you already have the ball rolling with having a court date made that you will be attending.

gottagetout · Aug 1, 2008, 04:35 PM

To clarify - he was arrested for burlary and drug charges. When I said that he worked illegally I meant that he really literally was doing illegal things for money. He hasn't worked since the day that I left him. (3+ years ago)

No lawyer, I don't really think that I need one to fight him. I WOULD want to file something against the DCSE for trying to modify it though (but I am in no position to spend thousands on a lawyer). I am pretty resourceful and especially when I am passionate about finding the answer I usually am able to. When I was served the papers I just went down to the law library and found out what I needed to do.

As for the help from the state- I have NEVER received any money from him. So, what I was saying about not qualifying because I made too much money had nothing to do with receiving money from him that made it too high and the state would not count what I was not receiving from him. The income requirements for assistance is extremely low. I make too much money for assistance at my job.

Also, when I got divorced I went to legal aid and had a pro-bono lawyer help me and she said that since he quit his job that his "income" was based on what he could make if he were to get a job (based on what he made at his last job). It was not based on minimum wage. I'm not really sure what the exact difference is, maybe if someone has never worked? I don't know.

asking · Aug 1, 2008, 04:53 PM

Originally Posted by gottagetout

To clarify - he was arrested for burlary and drug charges.. . . . He hasnt worked since the day that I left him. (3+ years ago)

Thanks for clarifying.

Originally Posted by gottagetout

Also, when I got divorced I went to legal aid and had a pro-bono lawyer help me and she said that since he quit his job that his "income" was based on what he could make if he were to get a job (based on what he made at his last job).

That's right. That's called "imputed income."

Originally Posted by gottagetout

It was not based on minimum wage. I'm not really sure what the exact difference is, maybe if someone has never worked? I don't know.

Not sure what you are asking here. He has to pay what he could have been making if hadn't quit his job to avoid paying child support.

To answer you original question, I would be amazed if you were not allowed to modify child support as soon as he gets out. I think your ex getting out of jail would constitute a "change of circumstance." And going from zero income to ANY income is more than a 15% change. :)

But really you'd need to get an answer from a lawyer, whether pro bono or just a consult. Many lawyers will talk to you for free for the first few minutes. And you don't have to pay thousands just to ask questions--hundreds per hour yes. But sometimes it's worth it to get an answer you can count on. I've had lawyers just charge me for 15 minutes of questions. It was worth it to me.

stinawords · Aug 1, 2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by gottagetout

Also, when I got divorced I went to legal aid and had a pro-bono lawyer help me and she said that since he quit his job that his "income" was based on what he could make if he were to get a job (based on what he made at his last job). It was not based on minimum wage. I'm not really sure what the exact difference is, maybe if someone has never worked? I don't know.

The difference is that after being in jail he wouldn't be able to obtain the same paying position (unless it was a low paying position to begin with). So, if he does not get a job right away he will be assigned to pay the minimum amount which is different in each state.