[arcura]

(Mt 13:24-43): Jesus put another parable before the crowds: «The kingdom of heaven can be compared to a man who sowed good seed in his field. While everyone was asleep, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat and left. When the plants sprouted and produced grain, the weeds also appeared.

»Then the servants of the owner came to him and said: ‘Sir, was it not good seed that you sowed in your field? Where did the weeds come from?’. He answered them: ‘This is the work of an enemy’. They asked him: ‘Do you want us to go and pull up the weeds?’. He told them: ‘No, when you pull up the weeds, you might uproot the wheat with them. Let them just grow together until harvest; and at harvest time I will say to the workers: Pull up the weeds first, tie them in bundles and burn them; then gather the wheat into my barn’».

Jesus put another parable before them, «The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed, that a man took and sowed in his field. It is smaller than all other seeds, but once it has fully grown, it is bigger than any garden plant; like a tree, the birds come and rest in its branches».

He told them another parable, «The kingdom of heaven is like the yeast that a woman took and buried in three measures of flour until the whole mass of dough began to rise».

Jesus taught all this to the crowds by means of parables; He did not say anything to them without using a parable. So what the Prophet had said was fulfilled: ‘I will speak in parables. I will proclaim things kept secret since the beginning of the world’».

Then He sent the crowds away and went into the house. And his disciples came to him saying, «Explain to us the parable of the weeds in the field». Jesus answered them, «The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seed are the people of the Kingdom; the weeds are those who follow the evil one. The enemy who sows them is the devil; the harvest is the end of time and the workers are the angels. Just as the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so will it be at the end of time. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom all that is scandalous and all who do evil. And these will be thrown in the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Then the just will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. If you have ears, then hear».

[firmbeliever]

Personally I think these parables are beautiful.

[N0help4u]

They are easy to understand basically.
The last paragraph explains the seed and the weeds

I looked up mustard seed to help me explain and found this
Which seems interesting
"Mustard seed... is smaller than all the seeds."- This statement has stirred much controversy. Critics who want to attack the Bible pounce on this statement. They say, "That proves the Bible is not inerrant, because a wild orchid seed is smaller than a mustard seed! Therefore, Jesus didn't know what was truly the smallest seed. If He didn't know that, then He is not God."

The Greek word used for "seed" and "seeds" in verse 31 is the word "sperma." The usage of the word "seeds" here refers to seeds sown in an agricultural manner. It refers to intentionally planted seeds. It refers to that which is planted as a crop to be eaten, as opposed to something that grows wild. The seed being referred to in the parable, then, is a seed that was sown agriculturally to produce something edible.

Of all the seeds that were sown at that time in the East, and all the seeds that are sown today to produce edible products, the mustard seed was and still is the smallest. In the context Jesus spoke in, what He said was absolutely correct. This was recently affirmed by Dr. A. L. Shinners, the director of the herbarium at Southern Methodist University in Dallas. That herbarium is the largest in the southwest, with 318 thousand botanical specimens from all over the world. Dr. Shinners is also a regular lecturer at the Smithsonian Institute. He said, "...the mustard seed would indeed have been the smallest of those likely to have been noticed by the people at the time of Christ. The principal field crops (such as barley, wheat, lentils, beans) have much larger seeds as do...other plants which might have been present as weeds....There are various weeds and wild flowers belonging to the mustard, pigweed, and chickweed families with seeds as small or smaller than mustard itself, but they would not have been particularly known or noticed by the inhabitants." Those weeds and wild flowers were not planted as a crop. The Parable of the Mustard Seed, Mark 4:30-34

It made me think that it could have even a deeper meaning if Jesus was referring to
Edible sown seed as the word and wild non edible seed the same as he refers to weeds

[sndbay]

It made me think that it could have even a deeper meaning if Jesus was referring to
edible sown seed as the word and wild non edible seed the same as he refers to weeds

There is definitely much more meaning in all that scripture says. You can see the evidence of that when you read another scripture that gives the same thought, and yet more thought to what is said comes to mind.
Take when Jesus tells us "Learn a parable of the fig tree " Mark 13:28-31 Jesus didn't say perhaps you should learn this parable, but learn it. Matthew 24:32


Confirmed by Matthew 7:24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

I feel in my heart we should all be wise.. and think of the meaning of the three wise men.. There is much more meaning to these 3 men that followed the Star of David to find a baby in a manger... The meaning is endless

[Fr_Chuck]

Yes, Jesus spoke to them in terms of every day usage, people where used to planting and harvesting and the hard work of a grinder and other items named in the stories.

If Jesus was here today, of course depending on the crowd he was talking to, he may talk about items that were in common use today from spam email to signal drops on cell phones.

[sndbay]

Yes, Jesus spoke to them in terms of every day usage, people where used to planting and harvesting and the hard work of a grinder and other items named in the stories.

If Jesus was here today, of course depending on the crowd he was talking to, he may talk about items that were in common use today from spam email to signal drops on cell phones.

But Jesus does not have to use today's technology to tell us that man today should remain on the same path in the Word to follow Him.

[savedsinner7]

I like the mustard seed one.

Its like faith is the seed, and even a small amount of faith grows, when watered by the Spirit, into something very large and great--like the giant mustard plant becomes.

I can also see how we are like the seed. When we allow ourselves to be planted (in a church), watered by the Spirit and the Word, we will grow. But first we have to be broken and under the pressure and fight our way up from underneath. The seed doesn't just grow, it dies first, then pushes its way through much resistance to poke a small hole in the ground and make its tiny start. Then with much watering, sun and time, the small start grows into something beautiful and huge.

I want to grow as God has planted me.

[sndbay]

I like the mustard seed one.

Its like faith is the seed, and even a small amount of faith grows, when watered by the Spirit, into something very large and great--like the giant mustard plant becomes.

I can also see how we are like the seed. When we allow ourselves to be planted (in a church), watered by the Spirit and the Word, we will grow. But first we have to be broken and under the pressure and fight our way up from underneath. The seed doesn't just grow, it dies first, then pushes its way through much resistance to poke a small hole in the ground and make its tiny start. then with much watering, sun and time, the small start grows into something beautiful and huge.

I want to grow as God has planted me.

A very wonderful thought savedsinner7:)


Matthew 13:24 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:

meaning of seed: 1) from which a plant germinates a) the seed i.e. the grain or kernel which contains within itself the germ of the future plants 1) of the grains or kernels sownb) metaph. A seed i.e. a residue, or a few survivors reserved as the germ of the next generation (just as seed is kept from the harvest for the sowing)2) the semen virile a) the product of this semen, seed, children, offspring, progeny b) family, tribe, posterity c) whatever possesses vital force or life giving power 1) of divine energy of the Holy Spirit operating within the soul by which we are regenerated

Matthew 13:31 Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field:

meaning of mustard seed: 1) mustard, the name of a plant which in oriental countries grows from a very small seed and attains to the height of a tree, 10 feet (3 m) and more; hence a very small quantity of a thing is likened to a mustard seed, and also a thing which grows to a remarkable size

[arcura]

Thank you all so far for the very good responses.
The are wonderful.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[savedsinner7]

You're welcome.

[sndbay]

Thank you all so far for the very good responses.
The are wonderful.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

Fred, this is the reason why csripture is so easy to understand. He has fore told all.. Matthew 13:37-39 states, "He (Jesus) answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of Man. The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; the enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels."

[jakester]

I hope I can jump in on the discussion a bit. Just wanted to say that I really liked Nohelp4u's exposition on Jesus's statement concerning the mustard seed and how it is the smallest seed "planted" not the smallest seed... it's helpful to know the distinction and also helpful to be able to refute an argument such as the one mentioned in that post.

Also, I like what savedsinner7 was saying about certain elements of the sower parable as it relates to the imagery of struggling and persevering much like a seed has to in order to survive the elements and grow. I'd like to expound a little on this parable because I believe that Jesus is saying something profound regarding the process of maturing in faith. But I don't want to take away from what Nohelp4u or savedsinner have already stated, I'm just simply adding my own observation to the discussion.

Let me quote Jesus's interpretation of the parable again as it appears in Mark's gospel:

And when he was alone, those around him with the twelve asked him about the parables. And he said to them, “To you has been given the secret of the kingdom of God, but for those outside everything is in parables, so that “they may indeed see but not perceive, and may indeed hear but not understand, lest they should turn and be forgiven.” And he said to them, “Do you not understand this parable? How then will you understand all the parables? The sower sows the word. And these are the ones along the path, where the word is sown: when they hear, Satan immediately comes and takes away the word that is sown in them. And these are the ones sown on rocky ground: the ones who, when they hear the word, immediately receive it with joy. And they have no root in themselves, but endure for a while; then, when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately they fall away. And others are the ones sown among thorns. They are those who hear the word, but the cares of the world and the deceitfulness of riches and the desires for other things enter and choke the word, and it proves unfruitful. But those that were sown on the good soil are the ones who hear the word and accept it and bear fruit, thirty-fold and sixty-fold and a hundred-fold.”

What I see to be a constant theme in the gospels and in the other New Testament writings is the idea of hearing the word of God, receiving it, and persevering in faith. In my estimation, Jesus is depicting a process—if you will—that everyone goes through. A person hears the word of God and not very long afterward, that person's commitment to the truth is tested. In the parable, the symbolism used by Jesus is meant to reflect a process that God takes every person through.

The first person hears the word of God and doesn't bat an eye…he just rejects the truth out of hand. The second person immediately hears the good news and is excited about it for a time, but when God begins to test that person's faith through tribulation or persecution, that person then realizes that following Jesus is not something he wants to do. The third person also hears the word but in contemplating what it is that is required by the gospel (submission to do the will of God and wanting what He wants), he feels like the commitment is just to great for him…that the things that the world has to offer are more interesting than the kingdom of God. The last person, however, is unlike the first three. The last person receives the word and the word takes hold of that person, captivating him in such a way that neither tribulation, persecution, the riches or cares of this world, are worth forsaking Jesus Christ. Ultimately, that person's life bears fruit through persevering in faith and learning who God is and desiring to know His will…and subsequently, he is changed and made into the image of His Son, Jesus Christ.

All of the disciples, I'd argue, see this process. James talks about it in Ch 1, (paraphrase)…”knowing that the testing of your faith produces perseverance”

And Peter in 1 Peter Ch 1: In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, if necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith—more precious than gold that perishes though it is tested by fire—may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.

These are just a couple of references but I know there are more passages I could refer to. Let me know your thoughts.

[savedsinner7]

jakester,
I tend to agree with your explanation on some level. But there is another level to it.
We have to remember that the "thief comes to steal, kill and destroy." I have heard personally from the LORD and been in His presence and within hours of His withdrawing back His presence the enemy comes to take that which was received. So its not always that what we hear being rejected, sometimes its stolen away and sometimes the enemy just wants to deceive us into thinking that something is taken away so that we turn from God. He is right there all along waiting for us to call on Him and come running.

[N0help4u]

jakester,
I tend to agree with your explaination on some level. But there is another level to it.
We have to remember that the "thief comes to steal, kill and destroy." I have heard personally from the LORD and been in His presence and within hours of His withdrawing back His presence the enemy comes to take that which was received. So its not always that what we hear being rejected, sometimes its stolen away and sometimes the enemy just wants to deceive us into thinking that something is taken away so that we turn from God. He is right there all along waiting for us to call on Him and come running.

I can relate to that because I know 'the enemy' has stolen and destroyed' so much of my life.
Often it is choices we make and years later still 'paying' for them. But often it is a personal attack from the enemy. I have even gotten to the point I can tell the difference and why it happened. I just wish I could work my way out of the attacks though cause they just keep snowballing.

[jakester]

Savedsinner - yeah, sure... the enemy can cause us to doubt, etc. However, the parable itself is, I am arguing, is Jesus's way of explaining how not all who hear the word of God and even accept it for a time will ultimately persevere until the end. The section of the parable where He's talking about the wheat and the tares is a metaphor for those who really believe the gospel inwardly and hold fast to it and those who look like "believers" but who inwardly really do not believe the gospel. In the end, those who really believe will be sorted out from those who appear godly but inwardly are not.

I appreciate your comment. I think your argument is based upon one principle of scripture in relationship to a believer's struggle with not just flesh and blood but with powers and principalities; how Satan is a roaring lion seeking to devour. I'm arguing that the point of this particular parable is related to something other than a believer's struggle with faith and doubt, it's getting at an internal quality within the believer that is namely, perseverance. Unbelievers do not persevere because the word of God has never taken root in them.

Lastly, your comment about being in the presence of God and hearing personally from the LORD, I really don't know how to respond to that. I've never heard from the LORD personally nor have I been in His presence. I'm not certain I understand what you mean by those statements.

Thanks for your comments. I realize that sometimes communicating in a thread is difficult and certainly we don't always get our points or arguments across in a way that we would like but we try, right?

[N0help4u]

I agree with all what you both are saying.
It is about how three different types of people respond when they hear the word.
The ones accept and flourish
Others accept and get weak and have a hard time persevering and even fall by the wayside and others just reject the word and wither up.

[arcura]

jakester
I really enjoyed you thoughts offering on this.
Thank you very much.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[savedsinner7]

Jakester,
I wasn't arguing anything. I was merely expounding to share what I have learned through the Holy Spirit. My testimony.

Besides, I don't think the Bible is arguable. It is the Word of God.

Isaiah 55:11
So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth; It shall not return to Me void, But it shall accomplish what I please, And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

John 8:47
He who is of God hears God's words;

Acts 12:24
But the word of God grew and multiplied.

[arcura]

savedsinner7,
I believe that many people do argue about what the bible says.
Many interpret what is says in different ways.
That is the biggest reason why there are now over 30,000 different denominations.
Peace and kindness,
Fred (arcura)

[jakester]

Savedsinner and arcura -

Savedsinner - I don't think you were arguing in a negative sense, or trying to take my ideas and render them worthless, etc. I think that is the negative sense of the word "argue." To be a person of integrity, one must be able to articulate his or her position on an idea or statement and give some reasonable explanation for why he or she believes it or sees it the way he or she does. At least to me, that is the goal. Why do I care to do this? When Peter tells us to always be ready to give a reason (answer, defense) for the hope that is in us, I believe (if I am understanding him correctly) that one of the goals of being a Christian is to reasonably understand what I believe and why I believe it. Now, granted, not everyone is a scholar or an academic genius. But I don't believe that God is requiring that of us at all. I believe that we are witnesses of God's grace and mercy in that we can know the truth and believe the truth and be able to explain to others why we have hope in this life.

On another note, I agree with you that the bible is not arguable... it is the word of God. I believe that what you are saying is that no one can say that the words of God are not trustworthy or that anyone can say to God, "God, you've got it all wrong" or "God, things did not go down the way you said", or something like that. I wholeheartedly agree with you there. If God said it, in my own world-view and mind, I have accepted that it is true and that God is right. Here's where my real heart beats and where I believe arcura is coming from. The bible is there for us to genuinely wrestle with and understand. And because we don't have direct communication from God on a whole variety of issues, just like arcura said, we have so many different denominations in existence. What I mean by that is this: if we could all just communicate with God directly and be instructed by Him on every possible issue of life, it would be strange to find people on the left doing one thing and people on the right doing another thing. Someone could easily ask, "why aren't you doing things the way God told you to?" In a scenario like that, it would be obviously strange for people to be doing things on their own accord when God has already told us what to do. You see, that's the issue for us today. We don't have God giving us a prescribed method of doing every little religious ritual, etc. and because that is so, many denominations are attempting to reconcile what they feel they should do with what they feel God would want them to do. Not to put words in Arcura's mouth, but I believe that is what he is saying... Arcura, correct me if I had you wrong!

Having said all of this, I believe that is why it is incumbent upon us to truly try to understand the bible as best we can. Again, not all of us are scholars and we need not be, really. But when we read the bible, if we just merely read it without attempting to understand it, how adequate is our understanding? So savedsinner, if you read back in your post, you were attempting to argue (in a good way, mind you) that I had missed something in that parable regarding one level of it... "jakester, I tend to agree with your explanation on some level. But there is another level to it." I quoted your words just to illustrate what I am referring to and by doing so, I am asking for your own insight into the parable... help me see what I am missing. Provide some rationale from scripture as to what you think is going on in that parable, to help flesh out Jesus's words and bring clarity to what we read there.

In summary, I'm not upset or anything like that! When we argue, we need not be afraid to do so as long as we provide reasons for why we believe what we believe. That's all I am saying. :)