[SamGupta]

Hi,
I am trying to do the plumbing for my sewage ejection pump. The nearest sewage pipe is coming out from the washing machine. It seems to be a 3" pipe. Is it a good/bad idea to drain the ejection pump into this pipe(connect them with a T). I am assuming that the washing machine will have a trap and draining the sewage ejection pump to that pipe will be OK. Please advice.


Thanks
Sam.

[JudyKayTee]

Hi,
I am trying to do the plumbing for my sewage ejection pump. The nearest sewage pipe is coming out from the washing machine. It seems to be a 3" pipe. Is it a good/bad idea to drain the ejection pump into this pipe(connect them with a T). I am assuming that the washing machine will have a trap and draining the sewage ejection pump to that pipe will be ok. Please advice.


thanks
Sam.

This is illegal where I live - waste water and drainoff cannot go into the same pipe.

I don't know where you are and if this is correct everywhere.

[massplumber2008]

Hi again Sam:

I think Judykaytee thinks you are referring to a SUMP PUMP... if that is the case then she is correct! If not, then follow below.

Hey, sewage ejector pump requires a 2" discharge pipe that needs to connect into that 3" pipe you were talking about via a 3"x2"wye fitting (look wye straight up)... then come off that with a 2" dandy cleanout (see pic. below) and then run that 2" pipe over to the ejector (hang every 4 feet and pipe pitches 1/4" per foot from high point right above the ejector to low point back at 3" drain pipe... that make sense? ).

Out of the ejector, above lid, you need to install a 2" check valve (see pictures below.. I like the white compression type better than the green flapper type if you can find it) on the discharge line (1/2 way up pipe) and if you install this you need to DRILL a 3/16" hole below the ejector basin cover (prevents air lock of pipe/pump). I also recommend a 2" full port ball valve right above the check valve in case the check valve ever has a problem (sewage is above the check valve.. if check valve goes bad, sewage above needs to be removed (YUCK! ) and that 2" full port ball valve comes in real handy...and keeps sewage from being issue so I recommend it strongly here!!).

Hang the discharge pipe with 2" F&M split ring and plate (see picture below)to wall, if possible. I use 3/8" threaded rod and these hangers to hang the check valve sturdy and anchor the pipe well... reduces vibrations here. Otherwise at least hang pipe with strap hanger from above discharge pipe!

Check out the following link for instructions on installing sewage ejector... note that you want the picture with the sewage ejector title above it:

http://www.zoeller.com/zcopump/zcopdfdocs/FM0447.pdf

Also, be clear that a sewage ejector pump requires a separate 2" vent to be run up by itself... in most towns you CANNOT tie this vent back into the regular vent system (there is an exception or two that deal with distance.. i.e. if far enough away some inspectors will let you connect vent into house vents in the attic just before house vent penetrates the roof... but need permission to do this).

The WASHING machine should also connect into the 3" pipe with a 3" pipe with a 3" wye, it should have a 1.5" vent of its own that connects back into the HOUSE vents and the standpipe from washing machine should be about 30" tall out of the ptrap

Anyway, there you go... hope that gets you started... lket us know if need more info.

MARK

[SamGupta]

Thanks Mark. I got what you are saying. Luckily the builder left a 2" pipe for the ejector system and another pipe(seems to be 1.5") for the bathroom fixtures. The 2" is going all the way into the attic and out. Also what about not draining sewate into the waste water pipe. The washing machine room is right above where the pump is going to be and there is a 3" pipe coming out of the ceiling which connects to a 4" pipe which eventually goes out of the house. So can I connect it to the 3" pipe which is right above the ejection pit.

Thanks
Sam

[massplumber2008]

Hi Sam... Sounds like you can connect into the 3" right above the ejector pit...but roll the 3"x2" wye fitting so 2" wye branch is rolled on TOP of the 3" drain.

Install 2" cleanout (as at picture above) off the wye and then run pitched as described above and should be fine there!

The 2" vent out the roof could be for the ejector, and the vent from the bathroom could connect into the other house vents as presented earlier... However, all bathrooms require a minimum 2" vent from the bathroom system... even a 1/2 bath requires a 2" vent line minimum. So somethings wrong if other pipe is only 1.5".

How much of the basement underground piping has been done? Is there a 2" vent from the lavatory?? Is there an individual vent for tub/shower, toilet and sink?? Or is there only 1 - 2" pipe coming out of ground for the sink? Let me know what you can. Minimum, 2" should come out of ground for sink, or should see a couple pipes coming out of ground.

Lastly... you said, "ALSO WHAT ABOUT NOT DRAINING SEWAGE INTO THE WASTE WATER PIPE"? What are you referring to here?

Thanks... MARK

[SamGupta]

Mark,
The basement is stubbed for a bathtub(1.5"), a sink (2") and a toilet(3"). totally 3 pipes are sticking out. I guess the sink is a wet vent. I will measure the pipes sticking out of the ceiling again. It definitely looked like one was smaller than the other. I could be wrong.

As far as "ALSO WHAT ABOUT NOT DRAINING SEWAGE INTO THE WASTE WATER PIPE"? Is concerned I was referring to JudyKayTee's post in this thread but I guess what I am hearing is that I am safe.

Thanks
Sam.

[massplumber2008]

Let me know what you find on pipes. If sink pipe is 2" then most likely is wet vent and needs to continue full size 2" into another 2" vent from house plumbing system...the sewage ejector gets its own 2" out the roof if doing it by code... ;)

If also a 1.5" pipe out of ground near tub then plan on connecting that into the 2" sink vent at about 48" off finish floor. Is there a box out in the floor for tub and if so, is there a PTRAP already installed in the box (underground a bit)?

And Judykaytee was referring to a SUMP PUMP... not a concern for you here!

MARK

[SamGupta]

Mark,
I think I am in a bind here. The pipes hanging out of the ceiling are 2 inches and 1.5 inches respectively. I am attaching the layout and those are the only pipes coming out of the floor. #1 is 2 inches. #2 is 4(or 3) inches. #3 is 1.5 inches. #4 is 2 inches and #5 is 1.5 inches. Also #3 is cemented out and I will have to dig to find out what is under there. I am assuming the pipe sticking out is connected to a p-trap somewhere below.

Thanks in advance for your suggestion.



Sam.

[massplumber2008]

Hi Sam:

If this is being inspected then you have NO CHOICE but to increase the pipe size to 2" as required.

If this is not to be inspected then I STILL RECOMMEND increasing that pipe size to 2" if you can do it without too much trouble...

Fact is that all ejector vents need to be 2" and if you sell that house down the road and home inspector sees it it will just give them a chance to argue and make a big deal out of it...

Anyway.. up to you here! Hope it isn't too hard... ;)

The tub box... look into the pipe if you can and then pour some water into it. If water remains after you pour a 1/2 gallon or so down the drain then it is trapped and you should just need to connect onto tub waste assembly of tub (called a tub waste and overflow assembly... see picture below).

Keep us posted as you go...

MARK

[SamGupta]

Thanks Mark. I was definitely going to put the ejector system on a 2" vent. I was wondering if there was anyway of tying the rest of the plumbing to the 1.5 inch vent. I guess not. I don't know why the builder would make such a fundamental mistake. The house was built in 2003 and is in Georgia. I will keep you posted as I go along.

Thanks
Sam.

[massplumber2008]

Sam.. may also be able to connect into a 2" vent at the bathroom upstairs...?? You may need to open a walll up there to do it...but may be better than running up into the attic.

If you try to connect into 2" vent at 1st floor then need to connect into vent at about 48" off floor..ok?

Just another idea....and yes!! It is odd that 1.5" in place like that and it was probably inspected ,too. Not the first time... I promise!. ;)

Good night...

MARK

[SamGupta]

Mark thanks again. I have been reading up some about the code on the internet. Here is what they seem to be telling

Drain and shall be sized in accordance with TABLE 7-5. The upper fixture shall not be a water closet.
SECTION 909 WET VENTING
909.1 Wet vent permitted. Any combination of fixtures within two (2) bathroom groups located on the same floor level are permitted
To be vented by a wet vent. The wet vent shall be considered the vent for the fixtures and shall extend from the connection of the dry
Vent along the direction of the flow in the drain pipe to the most downstream fixture drain connection to the horizontal branch drain.
Only the fixtures within the bathroom groups shall connect to the wet-vented horizontal branch drain. Any additional fixtures shall
Discharge downstream of the wet vent.
909.2 Vent connection. The dry vent connection to the wet vent shall be an individual vent or common vent to the lavatory, bidet,
Shower, or bathtub.
909.3 Size. The wet vent shall be of a minimum size as specified in TABLE 909.3, based on the fixture unit discharge to the wet vent.

They are taking the dry vent connection part to be separate from the wet vent and are saying that the dry vent part of the wet vent can be 1.5" for a wet vent system that has a max pipe of 3". I will also ask the inspector tomorrow.

Thanks
Sam

[massplumber2008]

Hi Sam...

Talk to the inspector. My bet, is that Fixture units will total to a value that requires a 2" vent... ;)

In this case, I am hoping I am wrong... and I don't do that very often!

Let me know... very curious now... MARK

PS: What version of code prevails in your area?

[SamGupta]

Hi Mark,
I went to the building permits and code enforcement office and the officer seemed to have no clue as to the exact code reference. He asked me to not finish the vent connection and talk to the inspector once he comes in. Oh well I guess I will make all the connections (except for the vent) and wait for the rough in inspection to discuss the vent connection. As far as code I believe it is "International Plumbing Code 2006" with Georgia amendments.

Thanks
Sam.

[massplumber2008]

Thanks for the update... never an easy answer... huh? Sure would be nice if they allow a 1.5" vent pipe in your area!!

Meanwhile may be a good time to look around for options to run a new 2" vent... just in case it is needed.

Look for pathways from basement to next bathroom upstairs or up through to the attic. Sometimes you can run the pipe up through a closet or old chase along a chimney...

OH!. and don't get too technical on details with the inspector... just ask him what size vent he wants. If he answers 2" THEN you can ask about the code you presented here. My point here is that if you start reading code to this guy... he may start reading some code back at you (only somehow his code book costs you your money! )... ;) Just a thought! Some of these guys can be a little sensitive.

Keep me posted when you can... MARK

[SamGupta]

Hi Mark,
I have a follow-up question regarding installing the ejector pump. I cannot find a convenient place to connect the sewage ejection pipe to the drain. Can I have a couple of 90 degree turns in the sewage ejection pipe going up?

[massplumber2008]

Hi Sam:

As presented... yes you can offset with two 45 degree fittings and then a 90 degree fitting to a 90 degree fitting that connects to the horizontal drain via wye fitting with a dandy cleanout... ;)... see picture.

Don't forget to install the check valve or drill that 3/16" hole I mentioned earlier (post #3)...ok?? I would also have you install that 2" shutoff just above the check valve... you won't regret it if you do!

I also install 2 hangers at the pump... one below check valve and one above check valve about half way between check valve or shutoff and high point of pipe. I use a 2" galvanized F&M split ring, a 3/8" F&M plate and some 3/8" rod, make my hangers and then install them using concrete anchors and screws or just use the concrete screws by TAPCON. I also add a strap hanger (see last pic.) at high point and then every 4 feet after that.

Thanks for update!

Mark

[Milo Dolezal]

You should try to go upwards with straight run. Avoid 90's. If you "have" to offset vertical discharge, do as Mark suggested: use two 45's or two 22 1/2 bends. Also, don't forget to install your check valve...

[SamGupta]

Hi,
I finally seem to have all my ducks in order. I have one question though. I just wanted to confirm that I can connect the ejection pump to the main drain before I put in any of the fixtures(bathtub, sink etc.)

Thanks
Sam.

[massplumber2008]

Hi Sam...

No problem.. as long as the check valve is installed correctly...

By the way... what size vent was required for the plumbing (regarding posts #10-14.. I think)?

Let me know...

Thanks... MARK