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hollywood1farm · Jul 13, 2008, 05:02 PM

Is it safe to use any thing electrical in a house that the ground wire has been removed. The wire was removed by thieves and my friend was wondering how dagerous this is.

Scleros · Jul 13, 2008, 05:30 PM

Myself, I would replace the ground connection (and maybe get a very large dog). The ground provides a path for current to drain if a device develops a short. Without the ground, if insulation failure occurs in a device, you become the ground and current path when you touch it. It also provides a reference zero-voltage level for the neutral side of your electrical system which the electrical folks here can elaborate on. A proper ground is also necessary for reliable operation of any computing, electronic, surge protection, or overcurrent protection devices you may have.

stanfortyman · Jul 13, 2008, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by Scleros

The ground provides a path for current to drain if a device develops a short. Without the ground, if insulation failure occurs in a device, you become the ground and current path when you touch it. It also provides a reference zero-voltage level for the neutral side of your electrical system which the electrical folks here can elaborate on. A proper ground is also necessary for reliable operation of any computing, electronic, surge protection, or overcurrent protection devices you may have.

While this is true about a circuit ground, it has absolutely nothing to do with a grounding electrode conductor, or more simply the ground rod wire.
The ground described above comes from the neutral to ground bond in the main panel/disconnect.

The wire to a ground rod, and the ground rod itself, serve a totally different purpose. It is not entirely unsafe to not have it, but you should replace it as soon as possible, especially if there are going to be thunder storms.

Stole the freakin' ground wire?? Damn, I think I'm moving to the Arctic!
What is this country coming to??

Missouri Bound · Jul 13, 2008, 09:58 PM

Don't wait another day to replace the ground wire. A failed nuetral will force the hot side of the circuit to look for a replacement... and that could be you.
And why would thieves remove the ground wire?

Scleros · Jul 13, 2008, 11:06 PM

Originally Posted by Missouri Bound

And why would theives remove the ground wire?

My guess would be the current high price for scrap copper, or perhaps just mischief.

stanfortyman · Jul 14, 2008, 03:31 AM

Originally Posted by Missouri Bound

A failed nuetral will force the hot side of the circuit to look for a replacement.....and that could be you.

This will happen even with a rod. Why do you think a connection to a rod only requires a #6cu max.
Once again, a ground rod serves a different purpose, and it has nothing to do with backing up the neutral.

hkstroud · Jul 14, 2008, 05:44 AM

Originally Posted by stanfortyman

a ground rod serves a different purpose, and it has nothing to do with backing up the neutral.

What is that purpose Stan?

KISS · Jul 14, 2008, 06:15 AM

Primary purpose is lightning protection.

Secondary purpose, particularly when used with detached structures is to provide an equipotential between locations especial during storms which can change the potential of ground with distance.

stanfortyman · Jul 14, 2008, 12:05 PM

That purpose is not entirely clear. Here is the NEC text regarding this:

(1) Electrical System Grounding Electrical systems that are grounded shall be connected to earth in a manner that will limit the voltage imposed by lightning, line surges, or unintentional contact with higher-voltage lines and that will stabilize the voltage to earth during normal operation.

This description has NO reference to overcurrent device operation such as opening a breaker under fault conditions. There is also no reference to "draining" stray current as some like to suggest.