[Wondergirl]

How would you change and improve the education system?

[N0help4u]

More competition to the public schools that is accessible to everyone

[George_1950]

1: abolish the U.S. Department of Education
2: grant the parents of each school-age child a voucher for educational expenses to where any school can be selected

[tomder55]

Fully agree with George on both points.The Federal Government has no madate to manage education.

washingtonpost.com


I still think that education decisions are best done at the local level with proper respect for parental consent.
Textbooks, curriculum and guest speaker agendas must be made available to anyone requesting this information.

I would also add that teachers' salaries should be based on performance rather than solely on tenure. Reward superior teachers and create procedures for the remove ineffective educators.[ Yes I know Obama made waves with the teachers union over his support of merit pay].

Take steps to wrest control of the profession from the Teacher's Unions and encourage with incentives the recruitment of teachers from the professional private sector. If they demonstrate competence in instructing students then certain aspects of the "credential process" should be waived and they should be fast-tracked into the system(assuming they pass backround checks).

All students should finish their education having a degree of competence in personal finance with emphasis on personal debt, savings and investments.

A goal should be for graduating students to have enough understanding and appreciation of civics to be able to pass the current version of the citizens test that immigrants wishing to be citizens are required to take. .

Basal skills of reading, writing, mathematics, and objective science should be taught at the earliest age possible.

[George_1950]

Lots of good ideas, Mr. Tom; and I would add, restoring a strong measure of discipline in the classrooms. Anyone see the HBO program on Frederick Douglas High School in Baltimore? What a tragedy and most of it results from weak, ineffective discipline.

[WVHiflyer]

Y'all have missed the important change - get rid of at least half the administrators and pay teachers what they're worth. All that top-heavy expenditure for people who don't even come in contact with students. And get the colleges and univ to do a better job of training teachers - not just in the subject, but HOW to teach.

And while I don't like the gov't dictating to locals, money is a factor there. Many local school districts need the federal or at least state funds. And making some things a bit more than a suggestion isn't necessarily bad. There was an improvement in our math and science skils after the federal calls to improve those fields in the late 50s & 60s (space race had a lot to do w/ it). But we need to keep education. Accessible to all and free of ideological and political agendas. Increasing knowledge is the aim of education.


_

[speechlesstx]

In addition to agreeing with tom, George and gutting administrations I'd adopt some ideas from Mike Adams' If I Ran the Zoo column for state colleges and universities. I would eliminate speech codes, diversity policies, women's resource centers and fire any chancellor/administrator that allowed discrimination and/or censorship toward conservative and Christian groups in the use of student fees and school publications. I'd also make it easier to fire bad professors regardless of tenure, especially those that intimidate and harass conservative students and/or refuse to allow for a diversity of ideas in their classrooms.

[George_1950]

fully agree with George on both points.The Federal Government has no madate to manage education.

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines
...

Take steps to wrest control of the profession from the Teacher's Unions and encourage with incentives the recruitment of teachers from the professional private sector. If they demonstrate competence in instructing students then certain aspects of the "credential process" should be waived and they should be fast-tracked into the system(assuming they pass backround checks).
...

The real 'customers' in primary and secondary education are the administrators and teachers, not the students. We all agree there will never be enough money in 'education', but the huge sums going in now are going to buildings, admins, and teachers. A voucher system could straighten out education in the U.S. with dramatic test results in three years. As far as credentials to teach are concerned, Albert Einstein couldn't teach in U.S. schools today because he is not certified. In other words, he hasn't taken two years of education classes to figure out how to maintain discipline in the American classroom jungle.

[Wondergirl]

In other words, he hasn't taken two years of education classes to figure out how to maintain discipline in the American classroom jungle.

The education classes I took had to do with the theory of education; we never got into the practical aspects of it. We begged for courses on how to maintain classroom discipline and were told, "You'll figure that out soon enough." The closest we got to that kind of course was Ed Psych which told us only a little bit about young psyches, but not how to influence them.

I hope colleges do a better job of training teachers now. But I suspect not.

[smokedetector]

Get rid of no child left behind. What a crock. If they don't pass the grade, they don't pass. They do it again. Advancing them even though they can't read in some way promotes success? What?

Pay teachers more than professional sports players. It's ridiculous that people get paid millions each year to play a game and teachers can barely get by on what they're paid. Though I suppose it does help insure that the people who are teaching are the ones who truly care about the kids/learning.

Get rid of standardized testing. Or enhance it. Right now the 11th grade Texas Assessment of Knowledge and Skills (TAKS--standardized test) is on par with about 5th grade I'd say. What a waste of paper and time. Teachers have to teach to the test, not the real world. I would create a better situation there.

Those are my main things. I don't know why this is so subjective. Isn't it obvious, if you can't read you can't graduate? What is so hard about that? It's for your own good. It's time we catch up to other countries who are turning out a much higher percentage of intelligent youth. It's not because Americans aren't smart, it's because the education system is too forgiving/lax. If they know they can get by without really learning anything, well heck, it's the easiest way to get through it. This is so dumb and obvious to me. Makes me wonder if most politicians are just plain stupid.

[George_1950]

Get rid of no child left behind. What a crock. If they don't pass the grade, they don't pass. They do it again. Advancing them even though they can't read in some way promotes success? What?
...

You must understand "no child left behind" within the context: failed government schools and more, more money for admins, teachers, buildings. Yet, kids aren't learning and other nations are pulling ahead on standardized tests. "No Child" was bi-partisan: Bush (Compassionate Conservative, 'standards') plus Kennedy (Liberal, 'federal money' for education). Pundits talk about Social Security being the third rail of politics; well, education is riding right behind. At the end of the day, it will not work. We will have trial lawyers suing school boards, winning huge judgements because kids aren't learning in the schools that gov't built, all in the name of, "Education". It doesn't have to be this way. If we take away standards and testing the swamp will just get deeper and wider.

[smokedetector]

What I don't understand is how the idea that a child should be promoted to the next grade when he/she has not mastered the current grades fundamentals was ever thought to be a good thing. That is the result isn't it? The child doesn't pass, but goes on to the next grade anyway. I'm not saying there shouldn't be standards, but get rid of current standards and aim higher. If the kids in America were really as dumb as the test they have to pass, the country would fail within a generation.

[George_1950]

[QUOTE=smokedetector]What I don't understand is how the idea that a child should be promoted to the next grade when he/she has not mastered the current grades fundamentals was ever thought to be a good thing. That is the result isn't it?. QUOTE]
This was the state of affairs beforeNo Child Left Behind, which is an attempt on the federal level to get the schools to teach. Check your TV listings for HBO and see if you can view this movie: YouTube - HBO Documentary Films: Hard Times At Douglass High (HBO)
They try to bring "No Child" into blame on this, but there is no way it can be held accountable for this tragedy.

[Wondergirl]

They try to bring "No Child" into blame on this, but there is no way it can be held accountable for this tragedy.

The tragedy of NCLB is that teachers are forced to teach "to the test" so their students pass. The kids cram and then forget everything fifteen minutes after the test has been taken. That's why the current crop of US students doesn't know anything about history, English, geography, or science.

[George_1950]

The tragedy of NCLB is that teachers are forced to teach "to the test" so their students pass. The kids cram and then forget everything fifteen minutes after the test has been taken. That's why the current crop of US students doesn't know anything about history, English, geography, or science.

NCLB is an attempt, by government, to salvage something from the huge expenditures of public money. The schools weren't working before No Child, but it represents gov't's attempt to be accountable, something liberals and Democrats do not want; they have 'sold out' to the teacher lobby, unfortunately, but that's just the way big-time, money politics works. Do you see what is happening to General Motors today? Do you have an opinion, why? Unions. Education is going down the same path. I read in today's paper that VW is opening a new plant in Tennessee; GM is, according to some, headed for bankruptcy; why?

[George_1950]

Here's an interesting article: "The dropout report, released Wednesday by the California Department of Education, estimated that one in four high school students - 24.2 percent - failed to graduate with their classes or move into another educational program to continue their high school education. The estimates were derived from data from the 2006-07 school year." Top Stories - One of every four California students drops out - sacbee.com

[purplewings]

Get rid of no child left behind. What a crock. If they don't pass the grade, they don't pass. They do it again. Advancing them even though they can't read in some way promotes success? What?

Center on Education Policy

According to this document, from CEP, our students are doing better every year! Apparently someone thinks it's OK to give a report of that nature while it's obvious that many kids leave school without a clue. I've noticed many students who can't do basic math and must use a calculator for the simplest math. The cash registers at McDonald's have pictures of items so the worker will know which keys to push for prices.

I think our whole school system is operated on fear these days, and with fear present, there is little else.

We tried to establish a proper dress code with the idea that when a person feels good about the way they look, they will do better. The parents raised the roof and the code was dropped.

We tried to establish discipline to keep classrooms from falling apart by unruly students, and parents called their lawyers.

We tried to set-up metal detectors for those entering our schools with guns and other weapons, but the ACLU ruled it was a violation of rights.

Every step we've tried to go to protect our students, teachers and promote better learning has been thwarted.

The students feel they're in control of the school - and in many cases that is the truth. How can we expect our teachers to give their best under these conditions?

It eventually comes down to simply doing a day's work for a day's pay. Teachers who love teaching and seeing a student excel must not become too personally involved in these times, or they might be considered discriminatory or of having dubious reasons for doing so.

If we really want our children to learn, give teachers some leeway to control their own classrooms. They deserve respect - and our students need to learn to practice showing respect too.

I like what Tom reported in another thread... We must start earlier to teach our children and make absolutely certain they have learned as they go from grade to grade. If it is not learned well, the next step will only put them behind further. We should use higher testing methods to be certain they know what is needed before passing them to the next level.

[tomder55]

Michelle Rhee has been tasked by Washington DC Mayor Adrian Fenty to reform education in the city . He recently dismissed the school board and is managing the schools directly.Rhee implemented a daring reform program as soon as she took office.She shut down 23 poorly performing public schools, replaced over 30 percent of school principals .

She makes some interesting comments about the direction she is taking in an interview with Charlie Rose.

A conversation with Michelle Rhee, Chancellor of the District of Columbia Public Schools - Charlie Rose

She notes that new laws allow her to allow her to hire and fire administrative staff "at will" consistent with their performance.This implies that until the legislation was passed the administration had the same type of tenure protection . But she has no power to reward compensation for good principles .So the good ones often defect to higher paying surrounding districts. She says that her necessary reforms would not happen if subject to interference by school-board politics, particularly since many school board members nationwide are elected with the political support of the teachers union.

She says she is solidly behind NCLB. Test scores have already improved under her leadership. The ratio of elementary school students who achieved proficiency in math rose from 29 percent last year to 40 percent this year, while in reading comprehension the ratio rose from 38 percent to 46 percent over the same period. The ratio of middle and high school students who achieved proficiency in math rose from 27 percent to 36 percent, while in reading comprehension the ratio rose from 30 percent to 39 percent.
washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines

[Galveston1]

This is tangential to the thread, but I want to say it anyway.
The answer is home school. I know it is not possible for everyone, but there are several good programs that produce superior results. In some places, home schoolers are pooling their children in some convenient location, rotating the duties between the parents and having good success.
All of which may illustrate the point of bringing education back to the local level.

[WVHiflyer]

RE home school: 2 prob. Kids learn more than ABCs at school. There's also the socialization. Also, have to be careful on home sch programs. Many are lacking in proper science education.