[BABRAM]

Hi, Dolly100. The Judaism board is slow and the political board monotonous so I'll take a shot at answering your question. First off those kosher laws were/are binding to Jews and those considered the strangers, which were basically non-Jewish workers within certain Jewish communities that resided in Jewish households (adopted so to speak). Peter according to the Christian Testament storyline was a Jew. BTW I'm a Reform Jew myself and of partial Jewish ethnicity so how I see interpretation of binding law halacha is different even today than that of my Orthodox brethren. But that's not the important thing here, just a side note. Anyway I do think the story when read carefully demonstrates that Peter was part of a beginning movement that separated itself as sect of Judaism at that time. As the Jews and later more Gentiles became larger it became Christianity. According to the story Peter was having a difficult time in accepting Gentiles. Therefore he was given a dream that non-Jews were to be accepted as clean, although not bound by the laws of Jews by using the imagery of unclean animals that he would not normally eat. That's what I got from the story. Normally I do not give my views on the Christian board out of respect, but I don't think this really had to do with the foods itself being the focus. If Jesus actually lived according to the NT stories, he didn't die so that Jews could feel good about eating ham and shrimp. Just my two cents.

[sndbay]

Normally I do not give my views on the Christian board out of respect, but I don't think this really had to do with the foods itself being the focus. If Jesus actually lived according to the NT stories, he didn't die so that Jews could feel good about eating ham and shrimp. Just my two cents.

Thank you so much for the statement. The point made was very good, and does tell us Christ died for our sins. Eating pork is not a sin unless done as a sacrifice. However eating pork is unhealthy because God tells us it is unclean.. Not that it is unholy. Christ did not change the food statutes.

Our Father is a protecting Father who loves His children and wants them to live healthy in the world He created. Everything He has done with a motive, justication, and good sense. Perfectly! Amen

So don't eat pork or those foods in Lev noted as unclean, or eat them to reap from the unclean nature of each. ( free will ) I vote for not eating.

[N0help4u]

Christ did not change food status but we are more knowledgeable on keeping and preparing it than back when they had no way to connect parasites, botulism and other food poisonings to why they were sick. Now we can't even trust the food God did tend for use to eat with the tomato and other produce recalls and mad cow.

[sndbay]

Christ did not change food status but we are more knowledgeable on keeping and preparing it than back when they had no way to connect parasites, botulism and other food poisonings to why they were sick. Now we can't even trust the food God did tend for use to eat with the tomato and other produce recalls and mad cow.

This brings up the importance of daily prayer and blessing... Trusting He is with us..

Bless this Kitchen and those who gather here to eat. Let it be a place of love and prayer to You Father, In Jesus name we ask Amen

[BABRAM]

Eating pork is not a sin unless done as a sacrifice.

It never was for Gentiles, and therefore never a sin. For the Jewish people, outside of having personal knowledge, the proper animals for sacrifice in the Temple was supervised by Cohens and Levites.

However eating pork is unhealthy because God tells us it is unclean.. Not that it is unholy.

Just a note here. It's a little more complicated than that. Your NT defines clean in a way that I had to figure out what was being noted by it's translations, I assume Greek to English. In Judaism for those that are frum (meaning observant) the reason eating kosher occurs is not because something is "clean." It is true that some food items are healthier for us than others. However, actually the Hebrew word for kosher has several translations because of our modern use of slang, but none of them mean clean. Kosher means binding fit (proper). There are also preparation guidelines, but I want get into that. So when you hear a frum Jewish person speak on eating kosher, they do so not because a food item is necessarily clean, but that they are observant to G-d's law. Rabbis teach that as humans we may try and reason why G-d may want us to do certain things, but our reasoning is only secondary.

[sndbay]

It never was for Gentiles, and therefore never a sin. For the Jewish people, outside of having personal knowledge, the proper animals for sacrifice in the Temple was supervised by Cohens and Levites..

Yes I know, and I wasn't trying say differently except to use it as an example as for instinct. only if it was ever used as a sacifice. It would have indeed be a sin.. some opinons get the impression that unclean always mean unholy..


And thank you again for the help in explaining

[JoeCanada76]

It is not what goes in your mouth that makes you become dirty, but what comes out of it.

There are many more passages in the bible that supports that whatever you find fit to eat will be good. As long as you do not force your beliefs on others. Each person given proper thanks can eat anything they want.

Joe

[BABRAM]

Joe- Your speaking for those within Christian communities and that stands for reason in Churches where there never was a Kosher standard among a rather large Gentile population. I think it's a personal preference among Christians concerning what foods they like to eat. There may be a few Christian sects that are vegetarian, so in those rare cases there may be a slight menu conflict in combined community functions, but easily resolved. In other words it's not like you would be eating with each other daily at home. Catholics eat fish on some days rather than meat, but for the most part Christian denominations share a similar diet, including pork, shellfish, most cattle parts, etc... Concerning Jews and Gentiles... Jews shouldn't demand that Gentiles eat Kosher and likewise Gentiles of Jews. Your other point was not lost on me. Makes perfect sense. In fact even today only if you visited an observant Jewish function or was invited into their homes, would you eat kosher. Otherwise Jews don't stress on what non-Jews eat.

[JoeCanada76]

Joe- Your speaking for those within Christian communities and that stands for reason in Churches where there never was a Kosher standard among a rather large Gentile population. I think it's a personal preference among Christians concerning what foods they like to eat. There may be a few Christian sects that are vegetarian, so in those rare cases there may be a slight menu conflict in combined community functions, but easily resolved. In other words it's not like you would be eating with each other daily at home. Catholics eat fish on some days rather than meat, but for the most part Christian denominations share a similar diet, including pork, shellfish, most cattle parts, etc... Concerning Jews and Gentiles...Jews shouldn't demand that Gentiles eat Kosher and likewise Gentiles of Jews. Your other point was not lost on me. Makes perfect sense. In fact even today only if you visited an observant Jewish function or was invited into their homes, would you eat kosher. Otherwise Jews don't stress on what non-Jews eat.

Hello BABRAM,

I know exactly what your saying and I was trying to say it, but you said it best. No one should demand other people to eat the way they eat. That is what I was trying to say. Excellent post Babram.

[Mr_am]

I don't belive pork is prohibited in Christian dispensation ....

I also dislike the phrase "should not" as I bolded above.

Science cannot fully support your belief. Science cannot describe in whole the Majesty of God. Science sometimes contradict what was written (ie. Theory of Evolution, Big Bang Theory, etc.) and sometimes God defies Science (ie. Resurrection, abrupt healing, etc).

To sum it all, just because science said so it doesn't follow that it is the Truth.

I guess my words were exact.. no exagerration.. for example a person should not contradict his words... God creeated science and everything so.. why would science cntradict God? Simply it would not... What you call evolution theory... do you think it is the only theory? Do think it is true? I said science and I mean real science.. and there is a big difference between scientists (can be right and can be wrong) and science is facts (real and approved) not just theories and speculations..

[Mr_am]

Guess what? I saw this simple experiment.. online video... it is amazing.. when you see it you would know what you shoud think about pork..

So do it for yourself... pour coca cola onto pork (uncooked) and let it for a while, minutes up to 1 hour... and see what happens... Good luck

[N0help4u]

But is it the pork or the coca cola you will never want again?
They have been saying for decades pour coca cola on *everything under the sun* and see what happens

[sndbay]

Guess what ?? I saw this simple experiment .. online video... it is amazing .. when you see it you would know what you shoud think about pork ..

So do it for yourself ... pour coca cola onto pork (uncooked) and let it for a while, minutes upto 1 hour.... and see what happens... Good luck

Someone will have to let me know what happens..


Secondly added to my opinion for health reasons.. KJV Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee.

[classyT]

Someone will have to let me know what happens..


Secondly added to my opinion for health reasons.. KJV Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I [am] the LORD that healeth thee.

That is what God told Israel under the LAW. WE ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW!! Why do you want to mix law with grace? I don't get it? Jesus FULFILLED the law... God NOW callS pork CLEAN. End of story. Personally, I don't care if you eat pork... that is a personal preference but don't make it a "CHRISTIAN" thing to do... because it ain't. FYI... If I could have Jesus over for dinner, I'd make him a pork roast and he would eat it... I am a good cook AND it is a good CLEAN thing to eat!

[N0help4u]

I use to ask legalistic Christians what would you do if God told you go to the store on the sabbath and you went along with that but then you ran into a fallen away Christian and God told you to buy pork and invite him for dinner. What would you do?

[classyT]

I use to ask legalistic Christians what would you do if God told you go to the store on the sabbath and you went along with that but then you ran into a fallen away Christian and God told you to buy pork and invite him for dinner. What would you do?

Not sure I understand your comment. The thing I do know is this>>>>YOU CANNOT mix Law with Grace.. if you do, you will be a very confused, messed up, disappointed, Christian. Legalism is the LEAST of your worries but of course that comes with it. Why in the WORLD would someone read the book of ACTS and Peter's vision and come away thinking... MAN, I got to stay away from PORK. The Lord says exactly what HE means... Blows my mind! This is such "no brainer"! Why do people still put themselves under the law? Paul is clear as crystal on this subject and yet we are still debating this. I just shake my head.

By the way... I do what I want on the Sabbath because I ain't under the law. I even eat pork that day! ::D

[classyT]

It all gets confusing to me but I agree.

God is not the author of confusion. Law and Grace do not mix... it is like water and oil. Don't mix them.. you won't be confused! It is very simple.

[N0help4u]

Legalist Christians say you can not eat pork, not associate with non believers and you should not do anything on the sabbath.
Therefore if God lead them to go to the store on the Sabbath, invite someone they 'should not' associate with to dinner and cook pork on the sabbath then they would have to choose between following law or grace.

[classyT]

One last note... the problem with many Christians today is they have no idea how to read the bible... the first thing one must understand is WHO is the writer writing to? Is this written to the CHURCH? Is it written to JEWS? The bible is for all of us, but it isn't written to all of us. There are many things that I can glean from the Old testament because God is the same yesterday, today and forever. But the old testament was not written to the "Church". It is surprising to realize this.. but the Gospels are very Jewish. You won't find the "gospel" in them. Not even John 3:16 is the Gospel. His death, burial, and resurrection is recorded but not how to be saved... don't get that until PAUL... nope, not even Peter preaching to the Jews in Acts is the gospel as we know it. Peter didn't have a clue when he preached (and 3000 believed that day) HE was no longer a JEW under the Law. The Church period hadn't been revealed to him at that point. He was waiting for Jesus to come back and set up his Kingdom, right then and there. Church period? Grace? those were terms he was not familiar with that day.

[sndbay]

one last note....the problem with many Christians today is they have no idea how to read the bible..

Please then help and tell the meaning of: Matthew 5:17-19 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach [them], the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Point of Interest: Tell us, when will all be fulfilled? Scripture has it that no one knows that answer except God.