[spiderman2008]

Hello all that can help me

Here's the facts, I bought a 12 gallon nano tank, bought live sea water and sand from the store, I bought 4 lbs of live rock, there are 2 other rocks one of which was in a freshwater tank but was scrubbed, there were 4 plastic plants that were added as well from a fresh water tank but were cleaned before transferring over to salt water tank.

The nitrates are now good 0, the ammonia is also good 0, the PH is about 8.2-8.4 after using buffer for 2 weeks, the tank is 2 days under a month old. The salt is a about 25, the nitrates at first were very high but had poured a bacteria solution into the tank then replaced 1/4 of the salt water with fresh saltwater. The temp is between 77-80

I have a clown fish, pj cardinal, and a bangaii cardinal fish, I have 2 small hermit crabs. These all are living, 2 hermits have died in the tank, but 2 more remain now.

It seems like every time I put a small creature on the floor of the tank, cleaner shrimp crab or a corel reef lobster, they all dye, I have had 5 cleaner shrimp dye within 2 hours every time, the lobster lasted 24 hours. Crab died within in an hour. I am at my wits end on this it breaks my heart to see them all die can I have some help, as a side note, I am put them into the tank, place the fish into a bowl, and a drop method through a tube of the tanks salt water and I wait for about an hour then I just add the fish in the tank with my hand and placing it on a rock of sand floor, or once I placed the bad in the water for a about 1/2 hour then placed a dixie cup of tank salt water into the bag 2-3 times after 15 minutes each or longer. Then again taking it out of the bag alone without any bag water and placing the fish on the rock or sandy floor. Each time a ceaner shrimp died, they were not placed in there all at the same time.

Food being given is brine flzen shrimp and frozen marine variety mix (gumdrop)
Please someone know what to do I hate to hurt any more fish :(
The fish store does not know what to do anymore.

[steven62]

Hmmm..
Its been a while since I have kept a salt water aquarium, but it seems like 12 gallons with that number of fish might be pushing the limits. I kept a 20 gallon tank, back in 1992 which was considered to small at the time with current technology, but I am thinking its an oxygen issue possibly?
If you can get a horseshoe crab, they are tough as nails and do a good job of cleaning the bottom of the tank.

[spiderman2008]

Thank u for your help but there's only 3 fish and 2 hermit crabs why is that too much in the tank??

[AKaeTrue]

The average and natural salinity levels are 34,35,and 36.

It appears to be common practice to keep smaller marine aquariums at a somewhat lower salinity level for the purpose of increasing oxygen levels;
However, a salinity level of 25 sounds extremely low to me.

My guess would be that, even though your acclimation process by using the drip is ideal,
The salinity of the water might be way to low and possibly making the environment lethal for invertebrates and possibly your fish over time.

I'm unfamiliar with keeping low salinity levels, I know it's practiced but I'm unsure
Of how low it can go in a marine environment and still be considered safe.

If you're keeping the salinity this low because you know it to be safe
And it is your preference, then perhaps the acclimation time for the invertebrates should be doubled or tripled so they can safely adjust.

If it's not your intentions to have a low salinity level, check with the marine shop on how to safely raise it and where the levels
Should be kept at in a 12 gal set up to ensure all its occupants have plenty of oxygen.

Good luck to you. Please update. I'm always up for learning new info.

[spiderman2008]

Hi I Want To Clarify A Couple Of Things The Fish That Are Living In The Tank Are About 1-2 Inches. And The Salinity In The Water Is 1.025, In The Other Side Of The Reading Of This # It Says 31. So When I Said The Salt Was 25. That's What I Meant, Sorry For The Confusion.

[AKaeTrue]

I actually wondered if you were referring to specific gravity :) .

Your water is good, the SG is right where it should be and using the drip is ideal.

I'm still leaning toward the acclimation process as being the issue
Because dying that quickly after being put in a new tank is a sign of not being
Adjusted to the new water chemistry.

Did you happen to find out the fish shops water levels?
If theirs differs from yours in the slightest, acclimation might need to be done even slower
With the drip and over a longer period and in a larger container like a bucket
Since shrimp and lobsters are extremely sensitive to the slightest change in water chemistry.

[spiderman2008]

Thank you again for all your help. There salt level is .22.

They also had be acclimate another way I placed the bag into the tank and after 20 minutes, I added a small cup of tank water, then another 20 minutes went by and then added another small cup of tank water. Then after a about 45 or so I took the shrimp out of the bag with my hand and placed him on the sand, he died 45 -1 hour later. No one at the store knows what to do about this no one understands why they keep dying.

[froggy7]

I have to ask this, just because it's so obvious to you that it may not occur to you to pass the information along. Is it possible that one of the fish is attacking the shrimp? When they die, are there any physical changes (missing pieces, soft shells, changes in color)? Does the shrimp act in any particular manner while it's in the tank before it dies? At this point, the more information the better.

[spiderman2008]

Yes I Totally Understand Its Something I Took Into Consideration As Well. I Stayed And Watched The Whole Time The Last One Was In The Tank, The Cleaner Shrimp That Is. There Were No Attacks, No Bites, No Damage, No Color Change. It Lasted 45 Min To An Hour. At One Point The Last Cleaner Shrimp Swam To the Top Of The Tank It Did It Twice During Its Life Span In The Tanks Which I Thought Was Odd. It Was Alone For The Most Part. It Stayed To Itsself, It Climbed On The Live Rock Once While It Was On The Tank. Other Then That It Stayed On The Sand.
Thank You For Your Insight On Your Answer It Was Very Much Appreciated :)

[froggy7]

I am about to show my complete ignorance of saltwater tanks, but is there some other chemicals that might be too high or too low?

And then the other thing that occurred to me: Have you tried shrimp from a different store? Maybe the problem is with the shrimp, not your tank.

[spiderman2008]

I appreciate and welcome all comments and questions when it comes tot his matter nothing is to ignorant.

I have checked the copper which is 0, and I do not have anything but live rock in the tanks which is 4lbs. So there are no other tests besides nitrates which is 0 ph which is 8.3, ammonia which is 0 and the salt is about 32 or .025.

The store has about 20 cleaner shrimp in a tank along with other various small creatures that live on the sea floor they have told me they do not have deaths like I do

[froggy7]

My last few thoughts:

Is the sand from the store? Wondering if it might be contaminated, or have sharp pointy bits that are damaging the shrimp's exoskeletons.

Do you wash your hands or deal with any chemicals during the day? Wondering if maybe there is some contamination that is affecting them when you put them in the tank.

Is it necessary for the tank to have these critters right now? Perhaps if you waited a month and then tried again, whatever is causing this would resolve itself.

And finally... could you make a hospital tank, with store water, and very slowly, like over a week, switch out the water with your tank water? That might let you know whether it's an acclimation problem.

[spiderman2008]

Hi and thank u again for all your thoughtful input it is greatly appreciated.
To answer your questions the sand and water is bought from the store.
I do not deal with any chemicals at all, the only time I have ever dealt with chemicals is when doing the tests for these fish, and my hands are never in the tank after the tests are done.

We tried something new today. Again they gave me a cleaner shrimp. They asked that I use the drip method again adding my tank water to the shrimps store water. After an hour of letting the shrimp sit, I took him out and placed him and him alone into a large bowl of my tank water, with a small air compressor for it to breathe, nothing in the bowl, no sand, no fish, no live rock, no plants no anything just the shrimp and again it died within an hour. They store people thought it might be an electric current issue keepthing these creatures alive.

This is very s ad. I do not know what to do

And to answer your question no I do not need to have these right away, they are just pretty to watch. But I don't see how waiting a month is going to fix the issue. T hanks and for all thoughts and trying to help this situation.

[froggy7]

Hmm. Since you have the large bowl and air stone, why not try getting enough of the store's water to fill the bowl, and putting the shrimp in there. Let them sit for a day, and if they are still OK, then take some small portion of the store water out of the bowl, and add an equivalent amount of your tank water. Watch them for a day, and repeat. Repeat this until the percentage of tank water in the bowl is pretty high, and then try putting them into the tank. It may just take longer to acclimate them to your water than you are giving it.

On the other hand, if they die within the same time in store water in your bowl, I would seriously consider trying another source for the shrimps.

[spiderman2008]

Thank you again for your time I am going to mention this to them tomorrow. The thing is that they put copper in the water with the shrimp. They 100% recommend not putting any of their water in my tank, I know ua re not saying that but I am going to try your method see if that helps any, that's if they want to give me another shrimp lol.

[froggy7]

Wait... the store has copper in their water, and your tank doesn't? And the shrimp thrive in the store water but not yours? I wonder if they somehow have gotten to a point where they need the copper? Try the much slower acclimation, in case that's the problem.

[spiderman2008]

I found out today I was wrong when I asked a about your question it was one of the other fish that had copper in its tank water not the shrimp. They do not know what to do I am going back tomorrow to see if they came up with anything new.

One of the guys att he store suggested I take a part the whole nano cube and clean it with cold water and vinager, and let it run for 3 weeks before putting anything into the tank.