Check out some similar questions!

lnsa · Jun 29, 2008, 06:54 PM

It was father's day. My 5 yr old daughter wanted to buy me a pair of socks. We went to the mall. I chose my socks. I saw some shoes that I liked. I decided to try them and used the socks I chose to try the shoes with. I bought a couple for pairs of shoes for myself. I paid for the shoes. I told them to pack my sandals and walked out wearing one of the new pair of shoes. I totally forgot about the socks and so did my wife and daughter.

I was caught at the exit and charged with petty larceny. I tried to explain but the woman there did not want to listen.

I have been asked to go to court next month. I thought all it was is to go to court and explain myself and the judge would understand. But, now I get these mail everyday in my mailbox from attorneys wanting to represent me. This is crazy! The socks was just a slip of the mind. If I had removed the new shoes I would have remembered the socks. Wouldn't a judge understand that? Do I need an attorney?

JudyKayTee · Jun 29, 2008, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by lnsa

It was father's day. My 5 yr old daughter wanted to buy me a pair of socks. We went to the mall. I chose my socks. I saw some shoes that I liked. I decided to try them and used the socks I chose to try the shoes with. I bought a couple fo pairs of shoes for myself. I paid for the shoes. I told them to pack my sandals and walked out wearing one of the new pair of shoes. I totally forgot about the socks and so did my wife and daughter.

I was caught at the exit and charged with petty larceny. I tried to explain but the woman there did not want to listen.

I have been asked to go to court next month. I thought all it was is to go to court and explain myself and the judge would understand. But, now I get these mail everyday in my mailbox from attorneys wanting to represent me. This is crazy! The socks was just a slip of the mind. If I had removed the new shoes I would have remembered the socks. Wouldn't a judge understand that? Do I need an attorney?

I doubt the Judge will understand - it's called shoplifting and I can't imagine - if you have a clean record - that it will be anything but a fine and restitution.

What State?

lnsa · Jun 29, 2008, 08:24 PM

I am in VA and have a clean record. It is an honest case of slip of the mind vs. Kleptomania. What does fine and restitution mean? I guess my concern is if it goes into my record and affect my career and such. I would like to maintain my clean record.

Fr_Chuck · Jun 29, 2008, 08:31 PM

Yes, the judge will not really care, he will be hearing 4 theft cases, 5 drug cases, maybe a couple domestic violence cases along with yours, and guess what everyone is innocent, did not mean it, or it was not there fault. If you went out the door with something and the store pressed charges, and yes you want an attorney to help know what to do, to try and keep this off your record, by getting some diversion program

lnsa · Jun 29, 2008, 08:58 PM

Thank you very much for your answers. So, what you are saying is there is a higher probability of being pronounced 'guily' rather than 'not guilty'.
In my mind, 'guilty' means I meant to steal a pair of socks. Not guilty' means the judge believes that I genuinely forgot about the socks.
By paying a fine or by doing a diversion program, am I not accepting the 'guilty' verdict when I am in fact not gulity. How will that not affect my record? This is so crazy!

lnsa · Jun 29, 2008, 09:46 PM

I do have one more question. Can I approach the shop management and try to explain this whole thing again and see if they would withdraw charges? It is very important for rme to hold a clean record. I can't believe that this is happening.

JudyKayTee · Jun 30, 2008, 05:52 AM

Originally Posted by lnsa

I do have one more question. Can I approach the shop management and try to explain this whole thing again and see if they would withdraw charges? It is very important fo rme to hold a clean record. I can't believe that this is happening.

They didn't put this kind of time and effort into this matter in order to drop the charges - the time to get them to drop the charges is long gone (this happened Fathers Day weekend, right?).

So go to Court, in my area you meet with an Assistant DA, you explain yourself, he makes an offer, you decide whether to take it - I see some sort of fine, restitution (paying the store back for its loss and some of its expense) and you ride off into the sunset.

Perhaps the store will ask you to never return - or at least not to return for a year or so.

JudyKayTee · Jun 30, 2008, 06:00 AM

Originally Posted by lnsa

Thank you very much for your answers. So, what you are saying is there is a higher probability of being pronounced 'guily' rather than 'not guilty'.
In my mind, 'guilty' means i meant to steal a pair of socks. Not guilty' means the judge believes that I genuinely forgot about the socks.
By paying a fine or by doing a diversion program, am I not accepting the 'guilty' verdict when I am in fact not gulity. How will that not affect my record? This is so crazy!

You are confused about the guilty or not guilty part - the store obviously didn't believe you when you were stopped because that was the time to explain and try to get this matter dropped.

Insa, you walked out with a pair of socks you didn't pay for. That is called stealing. If you walked out of the store without paying for the stocks, you stole them. That's the legal language, that's what happened, that's why you were charged. The store also may have pressed charges because you had children with you - bad example for your kids and the store wanted to reinforce that thinking.

There is no category called "I forgot I was wearing the socks and so I left without paying for them but it was all a terrible mistake and I didn't mean it and I wasn't guilty."

Stop explaining that you are not guilty of stealing when you "legally" stole the socks.

This is not "so crazy." You walked out with something you didn't pay for.

How do you explain it? If anybody asks you tell them what happened and they either believe you or they don't.

Obviously the store presses charges against all shoplifters - what store?

lnsa · Jun 30, 2008, 06:12 AM

Dear JudyKayTee,

It is very important that I have a clean record for my job which requires security clearance. Fine and restitution means guilty. Diversion program means guilty though not active in my accessible criminal record. I am not sure if this holds good for high security clearance. Does it?

I know the world is not a fair place, but, it kills me to be pronounced guilty for something that I wouldn't dream of doing.

Isn't there any merit at all to trying and contacting the store - if it is worth a try and there is a speck of hope, I would do it. If so, should I go by myself or should I have an attorney pursue that option first?If I should contact an attorney, how I do go about choosing one?

Please advice all options. How should I approach this to maintain my clean record - both accessible and inaccessible.Is there no way out?

lnsa · Jun 30, 2008, 06:13 AM

This nightmare happened at JC Penny.

smokedetector · Jun 30, 2008, 07:09 AM

I say get a lawyer first, they will tell you what is best to do in this situation, whether to contact the store again or not, and they will (hopefully) be able to work out some arrangement, with any luck that will not reflect on your record. Obviously there are no guarantees, but getting a lawyer asap is the way to go. As a side note, I wonder if it makes any difference whatsoever if you "stole" $4 socks vs. $37 socks? I guess you could convince them better that you accidentally forgot about $4 socks when you paid over $100 (guesstimate) for 2 pair of shoes from the store then forgetting about $40 socks. Just a thought, don't lend any credence to it though.

MsMewiththat · Jun 30, 2008, 07:34 AM

I can completely sympathize with your position. Particularly when your field of employment requires you to hold a clean record. I do agree with smokedetector's advise in seeking an attorney as quickly as possible. Maybe even just a "free consultation" to get some advice on how to proceed. If for no other reason than to attempt to keep your clean record. As stated earlier this is all dependent on your record, past and current. An attorney will most likely be able to advise on what is the best practice and attempt to get your charges dropped or reduced. Good Luck

froggy7 · Jun 30, 2008, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by lnsa

This nightmare happened at JC Penny.

A store like that is most likely not going to talk to you. They probably have a corporate policy that says that they will prosecute all shoplifters, and no discretion in the matter, so that they can't get hit with discrimination lawsuits if they charge some people and not others. A small store might listen to you.

I have to say that I find it odd that, out of the two of you, no one remembered the socks. Especially since the entire point of going to the mall that day was to let your daughter pick them out for you.

twinkiedooter · Jun 30, 2008, 08:46 AM

A criminal attorney can do wonders when it comes to something minor like this type of thing. I vote call an attorney vs try and handle it yourself. The attorney can make sure you don't get anything on your record with something this minor.

JimGunther · Jun 30, 2008, 08:56 AM

I was in retail security for 13 years in MD and there is certainly nothing wrong with contacting the store management but I can pretty much guarantee you that it will not do any good good.

As was mentioned above, retail stores have a deep fear of false arrest lawsuits. If they drop the criminal case, they might be seen as having a weak case and this factor could be used in such a suit. So they almost never drop such cases, and in my state, a person cannot drop a charge once it is brought anyway, if the prosecutor wants to go forward, it will.

You asked what a fine and restitution are. A fine is a legal sanction imposed by a court requiring the convicted person to pay some money to the court. Restitution is court-ordered payment for some damage, injury or other loss resulting from the offense, such as damage to a car in a traffic accident. They may want you to pay for the socks because you wore them and they can't be sold.

Virginia is a PBJ state-probation before judgement. As mentioned above, you need an attorney, and when you get one, ask him to explain the PBJ concept. It allows you to plead guilty, serve some community service (sometimes called diversion) or probation, and not have a conviction entered on your record. This case, if it occurred as you say it did, would be an ideal candidate for a PBJ disposition.

There are a few parts of this case that are odd to me. Stores in the DC-MD-VA suburban areas have a lot of theft. They don't prosecute everyone who shoplifts because it would be an extreme waste of manpower. In the 13 years I was in retail security I never prosecuted anyone for such a low-value piece of merchandise except one person who tried to knock my teeth out, and he ended up with quite a few charges. I don't understand why that particular store did if the events ocured as you say they did.

Secondly, in a technical sense, you may or may not be guilty of theft depending on how the statutue is worded. In my state the statute reads "asportation or concealment with the intent to deprive." Asportation means movement, or taking an item out of the store. Intent to deprive means you have to have "specific intent" to commit a theft. According to you, you didn't have intent.

The problem with this in your case is that you will never be able to demonstrate that you didn't have the intent-courts typically judge intent by the actions of the defendant and all you have is "I didn't mean to do it."

Get a lawyer, ask about a PBJ, stress the importance of keeping this incident off your record and move on with your life. Good luck!

lnsa · Jun 30, 2008, 11:30 AM

In the 13 years I was in retail security I never prosecuted anyone for such a low-value piece of merchandise except one person who tried to knock my teeth out, and he ended up with quite a few charges. I don't understand why that particular store did.

>>>>>> As I read about this and think through what happened, I can't tell you how sick I feel.When this woman charged me and took me in ( she asked my wife and daughter to wait outside), she short of few abused me. She was clearly racist and her first question was " Which country are you from?".. She shouted at me to "Keep Quiet" as I tried to explain what had happened. She said I should be ashamed of myself and shouted at me that I should go and tell my daughter what had happened and face the shame. She did not even look at any of my receipts. She said she had been watching me and was sure I would not pay for the socks. She had wanted me to leave the store without paying for it. She almost willed it.

I was like, the salesman who helped me with the shoes could have pointed it out or reminded me. I asked for my old sandals to be packed and was wearing the new shoes. Even he did not realise that I didn't come with socks. It is that easy to slip from the mind.

Well, all I can say is "i didn't mean to" - and then there is fate and destiny. There is pretty much nothing else I can think of.

JudyKayTee · Jun 30, 2008, 11:48 AM

Originally Posted by lnsa

In the 13 years I was in retail security I never prosecuted anyone for such a low-value piece of merchandise except one person who tried to knock my teeth out, and he ended up with quite a few charges. I don't understand why that particular store did.

>>>>>> As I read about this and think through what happened, I can't tell you how sick I feel.When this woman charged me and took me in ( she asked my wife and daughter to wait outside), she short of few abused me. She was clearly racist and her first question was " Which country are you from?" ..She shouted at me to "Keep Quiet" as I tried to explain what had happened. She said I should be ashamed of myself and shouted at me that I should go and tell my daughter what had happened and face the shame. She did not even look at any of my receipts. She said she had been watching me and was sure I would not pay for the socks. She had wanted me to leave the store without paying for it. She almost willed it.

I was like, the salesman who helped me with the shoes could have pointed it out or reminded me. I asked for my old sandals to be packed and was wearing the new shoes. Even he did not realise that I didn't come with socks. It is that easy to slip from the mind.

Well, all I can say is "i didn't mean to" - and then there is fate and destiny. There is pretty much nothing else I can think of.

Unless you stop making excuses and blaming everything and everyone else you are going to have a rough time in Court. She almost willed you to shoplift? It's not fate and destiny - maybe it's not paying attention, maybe it's shoplifting, who knows, but it is pretty certainly not fate and destiny.

I own a store - more than one location, in fact. I thought I'd heard it all but the "willed it to happen" is a new one to me.

Retain an Attorney because you are planning to go to Court with your attitude and it's not going to go over well.

And, no, I've never walked into a store not wearing an article of clothing and walked out wearing an article of clothing and not noticed.

lnsa · Jun 30, 2008, 12:01 PM

Well, all I can say is 'good for you'. But never say never, Judy. I would have said that too on the eve of father's day.

When I said 'willed it to happen' , what I meant was if someone in the store is watching you try on and buy 2 pairs of shoes, pack your old sandals, doesn't he get the benefit of doubt that he forgot about the socks that he used to try on the shoes. Sure it could have been a shop-lifter, but, doesn't this scream of at least an iota of doubt that it could be 'not paying attention'. Wouldn't someone point that out to the individual rather than wait for him to walk out and then charge him.

JudyKayTee · Jun 30, 2008, 12:34 PM

Originally Posted by lnsa

Well, all I can say is 'good for you'. But never say never, Judy. I would have said that too on the eve of father's day.

When I said 'willed it to happen' , what I meant was if someone in the store is watching you try on and buy 2 pairs of shoes, pack your old sandals, doesn't he get the benefit of doubt that he forgot about the socks that he used to try on the shoes. Sure it could have been a shop-lifter, but, doesn't this scream of atleast an iota of doubt that it could be 'not paying attention'. Wouldn't someone point that out to the individual rather than wait for him to walk out and then charge him.

If I get arrested on a criminal charge I lose my license to work, at least temporarily, so I'm very careful - that being said, I suppose anything can happen.

And apparently, no, in Penney's they don't alert you. They watch you leave - or try to leave - and then arrest you. I would guess they have a zero tolerance policy. Does it seem like a big deal over a pair of socks? Sure. Why didn't they remind you? I have no idea other than they don't have to. Who alerted store security? Was it the sales clerk? Why? Why didn't your wife or daughter notice you were wearing socks? Questions for your Attorney (if he or she is in the mood to ask questions) to ask.

Again, get an Attorney, particularly if you don't want/can't afford to have/are worried about having a criminal record - because I don't see a viable defense here. The benefit of the doubt is not going to change anything at this point. Penney's didn't see it that way at the time either.

You are burning up time here when you should be looking for legal counsel, particularly if you think this was racially motivated.

PVphillio · Mar 28, 2009, 01:14 PM

Dear. Insa.
I'm in a similar situation as you are. I've tried on an earring, and walked out without even knowing that I was wearing the earring. The woman who was working there told me that I've tried to steal the earring that was 4 dollars; therefore, she had to call the cop. I'm charged with "petty larceny." And, don't know what to do. I really want to hear about what happened after you went to the court.
Please let me know.
Sincerely,