[ScottGem]

Oh, so saying "Secondly, ancient documents discovered in modern times were often bought to the church for translation and/or verification." was just a guess?

No, it was an impression I had based on things I must have read in the past, but nothing I could specifically cite without spending more time then I have in research, so I retracted it.

[milliec]

Millie,
All are welcome who wish to participate with open minds and/or civil discourse.

You make a valid point. I think the issue may be why certain books were excluded. The premise of The DaVinci Code is that they were excluded because they didn't support, or worse contradicted, the books that were included. Not sure if that is true of anything omitted from the Old Testament.

Hello,it's me again!
I don't want sound like my answer is soundly based on knowledge, I merely try to recollect whatever I was taught 46 yrs. Ago!
As far as I can remember, the reason for excluding some of the books had to do with different aspects which might nit have been in complete agreement with the "main stream"
- I'll try ro see if I can obtain something more substantial- I refer to the Old Testament ONLY.
I'll share with the forum here any further information I'll have, if and when I do.
Millie

[milliec]

One more thing:
Even if one believes the Bible was written, dictated, or at least inspired by a divine entity ,
I don't think we would disagree much that HUMAN BEINGS decided which books were included in the final
Form of The Book.
Millie

[orange]

Just wanted to add, I haven't read the book or seen the movie, but my adoptive mom is really into this stuff. She read the DaVinci code with relish and saw all the little spin-off shows about it. Now she is reading a book called "The Pagan Christ", which she says is very good. I believe it says in it though that Jesus (and Mohammed and Buddha, etc) never existed. And that's rather a controversial and not well proven theory. However, she is really enjoying it, so I thought I'd recommend it to anyone who's interested in the subject.

[blondiechika05]

First off, wow, there's a book that says Jesus, Mohammed and Buddha never existed? Now there's a controversial statement if I ever saw one, and one that I definitely do not believe.

After looking over this thread, I want to make several comments.

The first thing I want to say is that I was very intrigued by reading this book and could not get myself to put it down for hours, prompting my dad to make fun of me that I was actually devouring an adult novel (but that's another issue entirely). Having been raised in a culturally Jewish household and coming to terms with my own religious beliefs, which are Christian, the book presented issues to me that, as I'm sure Dan Brown intended, made me question my beliefs, although not to the point of changing them, as I think my parents would have liked.

Although The DaVinci Code discusses some real people, real organizations, and real works of art, and presents actual myths (in other words the book contains some facts), this is a work of FICTION and is not to be taken to heart. Earlier in this thread, it was said that the Bible is the only book that counts. In my eyes, ANY book that makes the reader think "counts" and the thinking process the reader goes through is what makes the book a good read. As for "counting" in terms of religion, there definitely are inconsistencies within the text and questions raised by the text of the Bible. For example, how do we know for sure that Jesus walked on water or raised the dead? We don't. But some Christians have FAITH that these and other events occurred, and instead of immediately branding them as "wrong" we should accept that that is their belief, even if we disagree. Or you can go with what I believe, which is that it's not about the specific examples of Christ's work, it's not about every thing that the Bible tells us He did. It's about believing in Christ's message that we should respect and love each other as human beings.

Enough with my dealing with specific Christian beliefs, though. The DaVinci Code is an exciting work of historical fiction that takes the reader in, presents ideas for the reader to think about, and keeps the reader interested right to the end, which is what a great book SHOULD do. The ideas presented are not there for readers to say "yes this is true," but for readers to think "could this be possible?" I know I personally looked up several things mentioned in the book and was surprised to find them to be true, but did not take it as fact just from the book.

I personally cannot wait for the movie to come out and I know my parents and I are planning on seeing it as soon as it does, and I also know I'm looking forward to seeing what the movie keeps in and leaves out.

I've rambled for long enough now and if you've read the whole thing, thank you.

[magprob]

The deal had to go down in any case. Jesus, GOD in human form, had to walk among us then suffer the greatest sacrifice there is. After all, what great leader would have his people do anything that He Himself would not?
When it was time for the Christ to die, I doubt that any of the disciples would turn him over on their own for a few pieces of gold. Unless of course, Judas did not believe there is a GOD! Still, the master plan had to unfold so I don't find it too great a stretch that Christ picked Judas and told him what had to be done. In any case, we will all find out for sure very soon! As far as the Davinci Code goes, RUBBISH! The problem with people today is that they will fall for anything as long as they are fat and happy. That goes for me also. The only thing is, I woke up one morning not to long ago and realized that Bible prophecy was really coming true. The globalists are promoting a one world government and the new age movement is promoting a new religon and we sit by and watch it happen. Sovereign nations will soon cease to exist and a single global economic system is beginning to take shape. Yet we sit and argue about why Judas did what he did and wonder if the Christ, GOD in the human form, really just slipped away and had children instead of dying on the cross for you and me. Well, I guess the powers that are taking over our world as we once knew it have us exactly where they want us.

[Starman]

One more thing:
Even if one believes the Bible was written, dictated, or at least inspired by a divine entity ,
I don't think we would disagree much that HUMAN BEINGS decided which books were included in the final
form of The Book.
Millie

If we believe that he took time to inspire it, then it's only logical to conclude that the almighty author also made sure that only the books he wanted included were included. Otherwise we would be thinking inconsistently.

[magprob]

Human beings did decide which books would be included in the bible.

[Starman]

Human beings did decide which books would be included in the bible.

I didn't say they didn't. I Only pointed out that if God can be thought of as having inspired humans to write, then he can be thought of as having inspired humans to choose which ones were included. If we deny this then we are being illogical.

[milliec]

I didn't say they didn't. I Only pointed out that if God can be thought of as having inspired humans to write, then he can be thought of as having inspired humans to choose which ones were included. If we deny this then we are being illogical.

Well Starman dear, I guess we can attribute this to some kind of "inner voice" we've been discussing in another thread not far away from this one, only, maybe, somewhat different. The question is: did they obey and followed the instructions without personal intervenience?
Millie

[ScottGem]

As far as the Davinci Code goes, RUBBISH! The problem with people today is that they will fall for anything as long as they are fat and happy.

Can you be a little more specific? What about it was "rubbish"? I checked out a few things mentioned in the book and most were verifiable. I think the only point that wasn't was the issue of the existing bloodline.

[Starman]

Well Starman dear, I guess we can attribute this to some kind of "inner voice" we've been discussing in another thread not far away from this one, only, maybe, somewhat different. The question is: did they obey and followed the instructions without personal intervenience?
Millie

An almighty God would prevent that--correct? So I understand the rhetorical question you pose as casting doubt on God's existence or else his motives, wisdom, and power. I agree, anything can be attributed to anything we wish to attribute it to. For example, many evolutionists attribute the existence of life anywhere to the mindless process they call evolution while believers see the hand of God. Believers see evidence of intelligent design everywhere around us while many evolutionists see occurrences chance. Each group has its own view to which it is entitled.

Me? I share the Apostle Paul's view as expressed in the following scripture.

Romans 1:20
For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse. NIV

I also share his view on the Bible

2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,. NIV

That doesn't mean that YOU have to share it, it simply means that I do.


BTW

I don't believe in extensive debates since they tend to lead nowhere.
So my posts are not intended as challenges to anyone else's beliefs but merely the expression of my views with which others may or may not agree.

[magprob]

Sometimes I have needed guidance and I would just open the bible to a random place. Lo and behold, that spot in the bible would have the answer to my problem and would be comforting. Now Starman, I don't want to hear about scientific variables and such because there is nothing empirical about it, let alone logical... I only want you to ponder the fact that the word of God is... alive. Yes... it is a living thing and an entity all IT'S own, because of the energy behind IT and in IT. To sit and split hairs is nothing but a waste of time. Yours and mine. The greatest minds throughout history have never made a logical link from our plane to the spiritual plane of existence. I doubt that you will here... now "In the beginning there was the word." Christ is refurred to as the word. Christ is GOD in human form. Yes, it is true that people through the ages have tried to suppress that, however: they can never suppress GOD HIMSELF-The word.
By the way, the pseudo intellects usually lead us nowhere when the debates become extensive.

[NeedKarma]

On a related note: I enjoyed Angels and Demons almost more than Da Vinci Code.

[ScottGem]

The greatest minds throughout history have never made a logical link from our plane to the spiritual plane of existance.

Agreed. The practice of religion and the worship of any entity has no basis in logic. It exists purely as a matter of faith. Many people's faith is extremely strong and provides them with strength and comfort. Other people prefer facts and/or logic to justify their beliefs. Whatever floats one's boat.

Christ is GOD in human form. Yes, it is true that people thru the ages have tried to supress that, however: they can never suppress GOD HIMSELF-The word.

I don't believe that anyone has tried to "suppress" that. Instead I think the word is "refute". Not everyone believes as you do. Msny people believe differently. Such people are comfortable in their own beliefs as you are on yours. They are also entitield to those beliefs as you are to yours.

Was Jesus Christ the son of God? I don't believe so. Was he one of the most influential characters in recorded history? Unquestionably! Was some of his teachings and philosophy worth passing on? Yes, I think they were.

[Starman]

Sometimes I have needed guidance and I would just open the bible to a random place. Lo and behold, that spot in the bible would have the answer to my problem and would be comforting. Now Starman, I don't want to hear about scientific variables and such because there is nothing empirical about it, let alone logical...I only want you to ponder the fact that the word of God is...alive. Yes...it is a living thing and an entity all IT'S own, because of the energy behind IT and in IT. To sit and split hairs is nothing but a waste of time. Yours and mine. The greatest minds throughout history have never made a logical link from our plane to the spiritual plane of existance. I doubt that you will here...now "In the beginning there was the word." Christ is refurred to as the word. Christ is GOD in human form. Yes, it is true that people thru the ages have tried to supress that, however: they can never suppress GOD HIMSELF-The word.
By the way, the pseudo intellects usually lead us nowhere when the debates become extensive.

Reason and faith are not mutually exclusive. It's OK to use reason in the service of faith. Ever hear of Thomas Aquinas? http://publish.uwo.ca/~dgault/phil20/reading2.htm


Not all Christians agree with your opinion on Jesus. Actually, what we all agree on, at least I am assuming we agree on, is that Jesus died for our sins and that salvation depends on recognizing that he did and living a life which honors that sacrifice.

BTW
Namecalling is not a Christian virtue.

[magprob]

So you believe as the New Age groups believe. Christ, Budha, Gandi were all just enlightened humans trying to bring peace to the planet. That's fine with me. The point that they discount GOD is not fine with me, however, I am fine with the fact that you have the right to believe anything you want to. There are as many paths as there are humans. Each one of us are somewhere on that path. I, in my own mind, have connected with the reality of this planet and what is happening in the bigger picture to see that the biblcal explanation runs parallel with where we are heading. IE: the globalists which are at this moment creating and implementing a one world government, national ID cards for you and me and, last but not least, the New Age movement with a new religon that works well with the New World Order. So you can believe anything you want to and if that doesn't work... they will tell you what to believe. No one will tell me what to believe when I know in my heart what is right. From that tiny little voice that speaks to us all. That is who I listen to. You have no argument from me as I can see you also have found the reality that works for you. That's where you are on your path.

[magprob]

Reason and faith are not mutually exclusive. It's OK to use reason in the service of faith. Ever hear of Thomas Aquinas? http://publish.uwo.ca/~dgault/phil20/reading2.htm


Not all Christians agree with your opinion on Jesus. Actually, what we all agree on is that Jesus died for our sins and that salvation depends on recognizing that he did and living accordingly.

Ahhh yes... now you drag me into the trap! I agree with you that a lot can be said about St. Aquinas and the Catholic church as a whole... I isn't going there baby! I will though, ask you to just look at Mexico and then you will have my complete opinion on that subject! As far as what all Christians agree with or don't agree with, I really could not care less what "christians" think. From the one's I have know, they don't think. I do not go to their church's to watch the fashion show and get updated on the latest gossip. No, don't you group me with that ilk!

[Starman]

So you believe as the New Age groups believe. Christ, Budha, Gandi were all just enlightened humans trying to bring peace to the planet. .

No, I never said that. I said that Christ died for our sins and that salvation comes only by recognizing that fact. I don't place Buddha, Mohammed, Gandhi, or any other human on the same level as Jesus Christ.

1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. NIV


The difference between us is that you believe him to be God while I believe him to be God's only begotten Son. Hope that clears up the confusion.

[magprob]

I said GOD in the flesh. If he is not one in the same with GOD then just how far removed is he. Splitting hairs! He was an immaculant conception so go figure!