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Rijell4 · May 29, 2008, 09:36 AM

To all of the window installers out there; How can I go about finding out if the 3 year old vinyl replacement windows (which were installed by the previous owners before we purchased the house) are seconds??

We have 19 windows and ALL 19 of these windows are "not square". It seems highly unusual! Could these windows be "seconds" the previous owners had installed to save $$ since they knew they were selling?

HOW can I find out for sure? Any numbers in the label to indicate?

Windows are still under warranty to us as "first buyers" and the installer is being "difficult" and the tech from the window distributor seemed "confused" but I can't get any more info out of him. The distributor is willing to order ONE double hung window (2 sashes) and replace them to see if this will stop the feeling of colder air.

ballengerb1 · May 29, 2008, 01:05 PM

Have you thought about the possibility that they were simply installed wrong and not properly shimmed?

Rijell4 · May 29, 2008, 02:57 PM

Can a vinyl replacement window frame that reads "level" still be skewed enough to cause what I'm seeing with the sashes? And still open and close without difficulties?

ballengerb1 · May 29, 2008, 03:03 PM

The top and bottom can be level with the sides leaning one direction away from perfect vertical. The sides could be perfectly vertical with the top and bottom both out of level, kind of like a parallelogram. In both cases I would think the windows would not operate well up and down. If the window was still perfectly square but installed in a slight tilt it would look funny but everything would operate fine. Any chance of picture?

Bob

Rijell4 · May 29, 2008, 03:51 PM

Let me try answering your other question here.
When the level is placed-either top, botton,left or right, it reads level. The carpenters square reads square when plased on ANY of the old, original window framing. It even reads square when the window is open and it is placed where the window sash hits when closed. It reads out-of-square when placed where the top and bottom sash meet when square placed here and otherside of the square placed against the frame of the replacement window.

Same reading occure when square placed on the bottom of the sash (where you pull up/push down to open/close window) and other side is placed against the frame holding in the glass. So, somehow the sashes are somewhat of a parallellagram-yes, but you'd never know it from looking at them.

Sorry to be so confusing, but these windows seem to be stumping everyone.

ballengerb1 · May 30, 2008, 08:24 AM

Lets try one other step. Use a tape measure and get an exact measurement from upper left corner to lower right corner. Now measure upper right to lower left. What are the two measurements?

ballengerb1 · May 30, 2008, 08:23 PM

You must be having trouble finding your tape measure, right?

Rijell4 · Jun 18, 2008, 06:53 AM

This question sounds patronizing!

wildandblue · Jun 18, 2008, 08:08 AM

He's trying to tell you how to find a true square. Those little carpenter's levels can be misleading and are better for squaring off a piece of lumber you want to cut. If your house is old enough to need replacement windowsa the house itself may be settled off kilter or maybe your floors are not level. Try checking a door frame. It would be hard to find a full set of seconds that are all equally bad.