Am I being a hypocrite?

orange · Mar 26, 2006, 02:11 AM

My husband's brother and sister-in-law were killed in a car accident a couple of weeks ago. We attended the funeral and the shiva, which is a traditional Jewish mourning period lasting 7 days. We have also adopted their children, a 4 and 6 year old. Since we've been back home, I've been thinking of various ways to help the children through this. Traditionally, Jews say special prayers called kaddish for 11 months after the death of a close family member. I've been doing a bit of reading about kaddish and I discovered that it is more for the benefit of the mourners than the deceased. So, I've been thinking of taking the children to the synagogue so they can say kaddish for their parents. I of course would say it along with them. We live only 3 blocks from a synagogue so we could easily walk there each morning.

My problem is that, since I am an agnostic and haven't really decided what I believe about G-d, I feel like a hypocrite for taking the children to the synagogue to pray. I talked to the rabbi and he said that as a Jew I am most welcome regardless of what I believe or don't believe. But I still feel hypocritical about it. I try to tell myself that I'm doing something good for the children, to help them. Is that good enough?

rkim291968 · Mar 26, 2006, 03:31 AM

"I try to tell myself that I'm doing something good for the children, to help them. Is that good enough?"

Yes!

fredg · Mar 26, 2006, 05:44 AM

Hi, Orange,
You and your husband are to be commended for your wonderful love, caring, and sharing your lives with your newly adopted children.
Please don't be concerned about yourself personally, and spiritual things. Doing this for the children is up to you, and I do agree with the Rabbi, about letting the children do it, and "you are welcome".
Love knows no bounds, is shown by those who truly care; like you. God knows what you are going through, and gives you strength to do what you think is right.
You are not a hypocrite, in any sense of the word; just a person filled with love.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 26, 2006, 07:42 AM

I would say that first the children have been bought up within their religion, so this is an issue in which they may ( depends on their parents) been raised and taught that their faith is true and valid. To change that for them, or to cause them to question their faith because of your non belief can be a real problem for them to understand or accept. With that it would only be correct to give them the opportunity to share their faith and to go though the process of grieving. Also the Rabi can give the children further comfort.

If you do not need the prayer to get over your grief or do not believe in God I would merely take them and allow them to pray.

But now going to sound like a preacher here, if you join them in the prayer it may well help you find the relastionship you lost and come back to a closeness with God.

orange · Mar 26, 2006, 10:48 AM

Originally Posted by fredg

You and your husband are to be commended for your wonderful love, caring, and sharing your lives with your newly adopted children.
Please don't be concerned about yourself personally, and spiritual things. Doing this for the children is up to you, and I do agree with the Rabbi, about letting the children do it, and "you are welcome".
Love knows no bounds, is shown by those who truly care; like you. God knows what you are going through, and gives you strength to do what you think is right.
You are not a hypocrite, in any sense of the word; just a person filled with love.

Thanks so much Fred. You probably don't realize how much it means to me to hear you say that... last night I was so down on myself about it, and about everything in general. Like really depressed. I'm sure it's the grief creeping up because I haven't really grieved myself since the accident... I've been trying to take care of everyone else. And rkim thanks to you too, I am really glad to know that doing it for the children is good enough for now.

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I would say that first the children have been bought up within thier religion, so this is an issue in which they may ( depends on thier parents) been raised and taught that their faith is true and valid. To change that for them, or to cause them to question thier faith because of your non belief can be a real problem for them to understand or accept.

I agree, and I want things to be as easy for them as possible. Regardless of my own personal belief struggles, I don't consider a syngogue a harmful thing, and if they want to go, I am all for that. The children have indeed been brought up with some religious activities, although the encouragement was on the part of their grandparents rather than parents. Their parents were more or less secular like Alex and I. But the children have expressed interest in going to the synagogue here and they want to have a seder for Passover (again, I feel like a hypocrite for doing this, but I'm thinking about having a children's seder on one night of Passover and inviting some other Jewish kids from the neighborhood to it). Luckily I read and write Hebrew, so that part of it isn't going to be difficult.

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

But now going to sound like a preacher here, if you join them in the prayer it may well help you find the relastionship you lost and come back to a closeness with God.

LOL well you never know. I am certainly open to that.

Anyway thanks again everyone, I feel so much better about it now. I hope we can be organized enough to start going tomorrow morning. The service is quite early in the morning, but since we live so close to the synagogue and the service is only about 25 minutes long, it can easily become a part of our morning routine. I'm actually excited to go now! :)

Btw, Fred and Fr Chuck, I couldn't comment on your posts, got the old "spread it around" thing again. But I appreciate your input more than you realize probably.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 26, 2006, 11:36 AM

I do the chistmas tree and even allow santa and his reigndeer to be in my yard, my children were always taught there santa did not bring any gifts, but the always got excited over Santa in the mall and the such.

We often do and allow things for children we may not personally agree with. ( easter eggs, halloween and the such for me)

I am sorry I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to know your customs and traditions.

LisaB4657 · Mar 26, 2006, 11:42 AM

Orange, when your brother-in-law and sister-in-law designated you and your husband as the people they wanted to take care of their children, that meant that they were trusting your judgment in how to raise the children. Your beliefs didn't have to be the same as their beliefs. They trusted that you would raise their children the best way you knew how and that was what they wanted. Don't second guess yourself. If you think that taking the children to synagogue is the best thing for them right now then that's what you should do, regardless of your personal feelings about religion. If you feel that they should be raised agnostic because that is your belief then that's OK too. As long as you remember that you are fulfilling your responsibility to them (and their parents) then feeling like a hypocrite should never be an issue. It's a very difficult job you have now but have faith in yourself, because their parents had faith in you.

orange · Mar 26, 2006, 11:58 AM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I do the chistmas tree and even allow santa and his reigndeer to be in my yard, my children were always taught there santa did not bring any gifts, but the always got excited over Santa in the mall and the such.

We often do and allow things for children we may not personally agree with. ( easter eggs, halloween and the such for me)

Yeah I'm wondering about that kind of stuff myself. We won't be celebrating Christmas or Easter in our home, but at the same time I don't want the children to feel left out if other kids are having candy or presents.

I am sorry I don't know enough about the Jewish faith to know your customs and traditions.

Well similar to Christianity, there are many celebrations throughout the year which can be tailored for children. There's Channukah and Passover of course, but there's also other holidays which are fun for the kids... there is a celebration called Purim which is kind of like Halloween in that everyone dresses up in costumes and synagogues often have a carnival for kids. There's also a version of Thanksgiving called Succoth, the harvest festival, with lots of fun activities for kids too, including building a "house" (called a sukkah) outside in your backyard, decorating it with harvest symbols and eating special meals inside it. There's even a tree planting day, which I believe is called Tu B'Shevat. I really want the kids to observe this one, as I think it's important to plant trees! Plus I love gardening.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 26, 2006, 12:12 PM

I am sorry I found out from my wife I am not "politically correct any longer, the local stores are having "spring bunnies" and spring eggs"
So I guess you can do them also.

My wife has a "holiday" music festival for her music students, some do Chrsitian, so Jewish, others non religious.

I wish I could celebrate some of them with you, I always try to learn the customs of others

JoeCanada76 · Mar 26, 2006, 02:30 PM

Orange, You know what. Your doing what is best for the children and what the children believe. Wheather you are a strong believer or not, should not stop you from praying with them. Prayer is strong, no matter what is your religion background or beliefs. Prayer is a very important part of life, being able to communicate with God. Be with the children. It is for them and you could learn a lot about yourself and God through the children. Children are the key, there is no hyprocrisy.

Joe

ScottGem · Mar 26, 2006, 02:39 PM

Hypocrisy is not at issue here. These children are too young to fully understand the tragedy that has befallen them. Anything that can provide them with solace and a focus for their grief will help them. What you are doing is for them, not yourself. As they get older, you can explain to them your beliefs and the reasons for them. Let them decide when they are old enough what they want to believe.

On a separate note, since we have very similar beliefs as we've discovered in the past, I caught the tail end of a George Carlin performance on cable last night. If you can find that and watch it, I think you find George holds similar beliefs.

orange · Mar 26, 2006, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

I am sorry I found out from my wife I am not "politically correct any longer, the local stores are having "spring bunnies" and spring eggs"
So I guess you can do them also.

Spring Bunnies?? LMAO! I've never heard of that, I'll have to go to the store to look!

I wish I could celebrate some of them with you, I always try to learn the customs of others

Well I'll try to a share little bits and pieces as I do them. I might post something general about Passover either here or in the Tips forum, as Passover is very close. And if you ever come up way up here to northwestern Canada... can't imagine why you'd want to, between the cold and the mosquitos LOL, although we do have some of the best hunting and fishing in the world, apparently... but if you ever do, you and your family are welcome to visit and celebrate with us. :)

orange · Mar 26, 2006, 05:37 PM

Originally Posted by ScottGem

On a separate note, since we have very similar beliefs as we've discovered in the past, I caught the tail end of a George Carlin performance on cable last night. If you can find that and watch it, I think you find George holds similar beliefs.

Oh that's interesting about George Carlin. I knew he was a stand-up comic, but I've only seen him in the Bill & Ted Adventure movies, haha. I assume you saw him on The Comedy Network or Comedy Central? I'll have to check for a listing. Thanks.

orange · Mar 28, 2006, 08:29 PM

Well as an update we have gone to synagogue 2 mornings in a row now, yesterday and today. It's gone really well... the other people praying (mostly older retired men) are very welcoming, interested in my pregnancy, and have been extremely kind to the children. I suspect they like seeing younger families attending services. It's surprising to me, but I'm actually really enjoying it, and I think I will keep going even if the children get tired of it. But so far they are enjoying it.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 28, 2006, 08:55 PM

Do they have services every morning for the public. That various people attend. Are the prayers ever in English or are they all in Hewbrew?

( our church has a morning prayer service every morning)

orange · Mar 28, 2006, 09:17 PM

Yes, there is a short prayer service (25 minutes or so) every morning except Saturday. Saturday is the Sabbath, so there is a much longer service on that day... close to 3 hours!! Eeek. Haha. There's also an hour long service on Friday night, since that's the eve of the Sabbath.

The prayers at the weekday services are completely in Hebrew. The Friday night service and Saturday service have some English. The sermon is in English, and some of the psalms are recited in English too. But the Torah readings and most of the prayers are all in Hebrew. Actually most of the service is sung or chanted rather than spoken, so once you get the hang of the melodies it's really quite uplifting. If you don't read or understand any Hebrew, the prayer books have the English equivalent next to the Hebrew... like, Hebrew on one side of the book and English on the other. So you can still follow along.

Apparently though some synagogues have less Hebrew. This particular synagogue has more traditionally minded congregants, so there is more Hebrew.

Fr_Chuck · Mar 28, 2006, 09:39 PM

Somewhat similar, we have morning prayers each morning, about 20 to 30 minutes ( the larger churches have evening service also nornally where they have one than one pastor employed)

We don't do a Saturday morning service but do have the Sunday morning service.

Our service is about a hour to hour and half. Now in the Eastern Orthodox the original service took about 3 hours also, but people were free to come and go from the service ( it is done with everyone standing)

We changed to Western Orthodox and latter to more Catholic style of service

orange · Mar 28, 2006, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Somewhat similar, we have morning prayers each morning, about 20 to 30 minutes ( the larger churches have evening service also nornally where they have one than one pastor employed)

Yes, same here. There is an evening service in larger synagogues.

Now in the Eastern Orthodox the original service took about 3 hours also, but people were free to come and go from the service ( it is done with everyone standing)

Oh that's interesting, the Eastern Orthodox traditions sound quite similar to the Jewish in that respect. With the 3-hour Torah service on Saturday, you can also come and go as you please, although it's considered disrespectful to walk around when the Rabbi is reading from the Torah. But for the rest of the service people come and go. Children are also allowed to play (within reason) during the service. In the Eastern Orthodox, does the priest also stand with his back to the congregation? Because that's what the Rabbi does here, except for the sermon, of course. But I've noticed in churches I've visited that the priest or minister always faces the people.