[Skell]

Does any one here believe that Obama is racist? Tell the truth...

[Skell]

Personally I think Rev Wrights latest rant may not be as bad for Obama as people think. It allowed the public to see the man in a suit and tie. This time he didn't deliver his rave from the pulpit but at a press club as someone much akin to a politician himself. The people got to see him for the first time not as a "racist" pastor but just like an old school black politician who says things that people are uncomfortable with. But now he looks like a politician that is in stark contrast to Obama who handles himself with grace and politeness. Obama has divorced himself from Right now and I think this press club rant will just become old news very quickly.

But id still like to know if people think Obama is a racist?

[speechlesstx]

So you WANT a "white dominated society"?

Pay attention, NK. World Twice now I've said I WOULD NOT vote for someone with that world view or goal - that it would be an affront to everyone else. Don't twist my words.

[speechlesstx]

Steve-

Instead of me coming home after a long day at the office to play chase Republican ghost postulates, or going over and over Black history another time or two with you, or discussing the numerous theologies that Christians teach, I'll just say that a few things you've said in these threads are disturbing, and I completely disagree. Granted much of all our views are based on experiences, our cultures, and ethnic history. For example: my family often jests that our family's tree looks like the United Nations. I'll make no excuses, perhaps this does place my ideologies closer to Obama, than McCain (or Clinton for that matter). I do like the fact that Obama is liberal on some issues and I'll add my deep respect and gratitude for him being a civil rights lawyer. Your arguments mostly boil down to this, is Obama a racist? The answer is, absolutely not! I'm waiting for McCain to charge him otherwise in the national debates. McCainites will regret that decision.

Bobby, if it were someone else I might find this disturbing, but I think you've been hearing me but not listening to what I'm saying. I find it disturbing that the same people that are supposedly trying to put an end to racism are justifying it in the case of "black theology." I'm the one saying there is room for and even joy in celebrating cultural differences in the church - but no room for racism and hatred - and it's going right over your heads. I find it disturbing that I would twice say that I wouldn't vote for a candidate with racist views on either side of the aisle and you guys are scratching your heads like I'm the racist fool. Isn't that exactly what you normally would expect from me, to reject the racist candidate, expect a church free of racism and other destructive theology? I think so, but you and NK are managing to find something completely different in my words.

And for the record (for you, too Skell), I don't think Obama is racist. But I do think he's either been dishonest or naïve - and probably both - when it comes to this area of his life.

[Skell]

Dishonest I don't know. Naïve ill grant you that. But does naivity in an area in his life that won't effect his ability as a politcian really need to be gone over and over and over and over. He's not racist, he doesn't hold racist beliefs. His ex pastor may be a racist. So what. Get over it I think is the term I've heard bandied around here lately. Ill never argue with your right to oppose his views on political issues but this is beginning to get boring don't you think? American politics is indeed a theatrical stage.

[Skell]

But just so we are clear? If he isn't a racist but simply naïve what then is the problem? Why is it generating such an interest. Is it in the hope that he will somehow spit out some racist remark or morph into a racist?

[tomder55]

Do I think he's a racist ? Not really . Nor do I think he is naiive .I think he was born and raised in a yuppy existence and went to the Trinity Unity Church for street cred . It served a political purpose... just like Rev Wright said . But it does put this mythology surrounding Obama to bed once and for all.

[NeedKarma]

Pay attention, NK. World Twice now I've said I WOULD NOT vote for someone with that world view or goal - that it would be an affront to everyone else. Don't twist my words.

I AM paying attention. Here's your quote:

That's odd Bobby, seeing as it is the left that preaches against this "white dominated society" and I'm the one saying I wouldn't vote for someone with that world view.

So the "left" preaches against a "white dominated society" and you don't like that. What are we left with then?

[NeedKarma]

I think he was born and raised in a yuppy existance

Really now.
Barack Obama is worth $1.3M, McCain: $40.4M
Millionaires-in-Chief - Obama's money (5) - Money Magazine

They pretend to be just like you and me, but there is only one candidate in this race that can come close to making that assertion without causing widespread nausea. Barack Obama.


And more of McCain's life of privilege:

[tomder55]

It is not relevant what their income is now . I clearly said born and raised a yuppie (not rich) . He did not come from a ghetto existence . He went to private schools from his elementary days and went to the best universities in the country .

It was only when he decided to be a "community activist " that he went to this church . It was all political calculation ;Just like this blow out between him and Rev Wright is . It is a fact that Obama discussed the possibility of cutting the Rev out with him before he even announced his candidacy because of his controversial comment from the pulpit.

[NeedKarma]

It is not relevent what their income is now .

Sure it is, when people try to pass themselves off as a "Man of the People"
Just like Wright and religion it probably shouldn't be relevant but you make it so. Don't worry, when McCain comes out of hiding we'll begin starting multiple threads outlining his shortcomings.

[tomder55]

I'll probably agree with most of them . As you will recall ;McCain was not my top choice for the position.

[NeedKarma]

I miss Ron. :(

[tomder55]

The dirty secret in the Republican party is that the Ronulans are still mobilized and trying still to wrest the nomination from McCain. Paul has not officially dropped out of the race ,and his people have done much to undermine McCain at Repuiblican conventions at the state level .

Check out what happened at the Nevada convention last week.
Ron Paul supporters not lining up behind McCain - Los Angeles Times

[speechlesstx]

But just so we are clear? If he isnt a racist but simply naive what then is the problem? Why is it generating such an interest. Is it in the hope that he will somehow spit out some racist remark or morph into a racist?

He was naïve if he didn't think this would create the firestorm that it has. He was naïve if he thought he could breeze through the election without answering for it.

[speechlesstx]

I AM paying attention. Here's your quote:
So the "left" preaches against a "white dominated society" and you don't like that. What are we left with then?

NK, I said no such thing. This is what I said, "it is the left that preaches against this "white dominated society" and I'm the one saying I wouldn't vote for someone with that world view." It really should need no explanation but nonetheless, "white dominated society" is the object of "that world view" - not the left's preaching about it. I wouldn't vote for a white racist any more than I'd vote for any other racist.

[BABRAM]

Bobby, if it were someone else I might find this disturbing, but I think you've been hearing me but not listening to what I'm saying. I find it disturbing that the same people that are supposedly trying to put an end to racism are justifying it in the case of "black theology." I'm the one saying there is room for and even joy in celebrating cultural differences in the church - but no room for racism and hatred - and it's going right over your heads. I find it disturbing that I would twice say that I wouldn't vote for a candidate with racist views on either side of the aisle and you guys are scratching your heads like I'm the racist fool. Isn't that exactly what you normally would expect from me, to reject the racist candidate, expect a church free of racism and other destructive theology? I think so, but you and NK are managing to find something completely different in my words.

And for the record (for you, too Skell), I don't think Obama is racist. But I do think he's either been dishonest or naive - and probably both - when it comes to this area of his life.

The base of Black theology is not racist. Old retired ex-pastor Wright continues to add his addendum's to Black theology that are his opinions, albeit extreme. That's almost naïve as claiming Cinco de Mayo is a day of about Latino supremacist celebrations. The subject is mostly controversial for some people of non-color, because mainstream churches today are embarrassed to have it repeated that their white "Christian" relatives held Blacks in slavery. I know where the naïve end started as it wasn't with Obama. As for listening, I never heard one, not one Republican in these forums start by interjecting that Obama's not a racist. After months of witch hunting and innuendos, "hallelajuh" I'm finally hearing some admitting that Obama's not racist! Small miracles never cease to amaze me. I'm going to work now this has made my day! ;)

[tomder55]

A long time ago (1984 )the Pope ,then Cardinal Ratzinger wrote essays on what he saw as the flaws in liberation theology .He warned against the temptation to see the Christian message exclusively in a political context, thus missing the central role of Jesus Christ in man's liberation. He said liberation theology was dangerous becaused it fused “the Bible's view of history with Marxist dialectics."
No the base of liberation theology is not racist ;it is Marxist .But Rev Wright's interpretation is separatists so how could it not be racist ?

[speechlesstx]

The base of Black theology is not racist. Old retired ex-pastor Wright continues to add his addendum's to Black theology that are his opinions, albeit extreme. That's almost naïve as claiming Cinco de Mayo is a day of about Latino supremacist celebrations.

Bobby, my original point on "black theology" is that there isn't - or shouldn't be - a separate Christian theology for blacks. Obama in Philadelphia told us "the fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour of American life occurs on Sunday morning." At least after seeing his pastor go out for 3 appearances and confirm those sound bites weren't something he could say was taken out of context, that 'surprise' should be no wonder to him any longer.

The subject is mostly controversial for some people of non-color, because mainstream churches today are embarrassed to have it repeated that their white "Christian" relatives held Blacks in slavery.

The more liberal churches are embarrassed and that shame and guilt is their problem. The rest of us take offense at trying to be shamed for a 'theology' that says all white men are responsible for oppressing blacks.

I know where the naïve end started as it wasn't with Obama. As for listening, I never heard one, not one Republican in these forums start by interjecting that Obama's not a racist. After months of witch hunting and innuendos, "hallelajuh" I'm finally hearing some admitting that Obama's not racist! Small miracles never cease to amaze me. I'm going to work now this has made my day! ;)

I don't know about the others, but for myself the question was about Obama's judgment and character, not whether he is a racist. I've stated that plainly several times.

[BABRAM]

Bobby, my original point on "black theology" is that there isn't - or shouldn't be - a separate Christian theology for blacks. Obama in Philadelphia told us "the fact that so many people are surprised to hear that anger in some of Reverend Wright's sermons simply reminds us of the old truism that the most segregated hour of American life occurs on Sunday morning." At least after seeing his pastor go out for 3 appearances and confirm those sound bites weren't something he could say was taken out of context, that 'surprise' should be no wonder to him any longer.

The more liberal churches are embarrassed and that shame and guilt is their problem. The rest of us take offense at trying to be shamed for a 'theology' that says all white men are responsible for oppressing blacks.

I don't know about the others, but for myself the question was about Obama's judgment and character, not whether or not he is a racist. I've stated that plainly several times.

It's a fact that Black theology occurred because blacks were not seen as the human equals to be at white churches in the eyes of their white Christian slave owners. Ever heard of "White" theology? That's been around a lot longer than "Black" theology. All Christianity should had been ashamed for that part of history, but that's even not something that Obama dwells on. And I'm certainly not saying that you personally are responsible for their actions, but you should respect that African-Americans endured something that makes them unique in their struggles of hardships. For example: if I ever said to my rabbi, gabbai, or whipered in the cantor's ear, that Germany shouldn't be embarrassed, or shamed, or have remorse for hitler's hell on earth (and what the holocaust represented to Jews) or how it altered and effected our history... could you imagine the looks and correction that I would receive at shul? I'd be chastised until moshiach came or my natural death! In a perfect world there wouldn't had been black slaves, but that's not the course of history America decided upon. Personally I think our country has made great strides since then, but remember black people didn't even have equal public freedoms that most people already enjoyed until the 1960's. And that's not that long ago. Jeremiah Wright, in my book, is as religiously extreme in his personal views as many other "Christian" pastors, such as Hagee, or any other two dozen evangelicals sucking up attention and draining old ladies out of their retirement. In fact, Al Sharpton and Pat Robertson in a commercial together represent two more strange ducks as well. Fortunately none of these clowns, black or white, are running for president.

I don't know about the others, but for myself the question was about Obama's judgment and character, not whether or not he is a racist. I've stated that plainly several times.

The Republican party, not you personally, scattered innuendo that Obama was the splitting image of Wright, an extremist who went way outside the lines of Black theology. The Republicans used this as a smear tactic and they know it. The Pubs actually have no choice because they're leading a weak candidate to a more-than-likely consolation prize. Hillary piled on because she needs to make up ground and she'll do anything by hook or crook. I'm going to break for shabbos soon. :)