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johnwi3 · Apr 27, 2008, 12:06 PM

Where are water hammer arrestors needed?

speedball1 · Apr 27, 2008, 12:26 PM

Water hammer arresters,( Air Chambers) are installed on the hot and cold supplies on each lavatory and the kitchen sink. Why do you ask? Tom

johnwi3 · Apr 27, 2008, 12:33 PM

In the process of installing new supply lines. I just want to make sure I put what I need where I need it. I was told the laundry needs them too? You guys helped me with my drain system and it worked out wonderfully... you guys have been a huge help.

speedball1 · Apr 27, 2008, 12:45 PM

How we install our air chambers, (see image) is to come off the top of a 1/2" tee just before we stub out of the wall and install the fitting on the tee as shown,(see image) We are mandated to install them on lavatories and kitchen sinks but if you want to put them on the laundry sink then that's just more protection for you. Good luck, Tom

johnwi3 · Apr 27, 2008, 12:53 PM

I'm from NH where we deal with freezing temps. If the kitchen sink is on the outside wall would you recommend bring supply lines through the floor into the cabinet instead of stubbing out through the wall? THerefore the arrestors would be visible in the cabinet under the kitchen sink?

ballengerb1 · Apr 27, 2008, 01:15 PM

You are correct in your thinking. Avoid outside walls for supply lines in cold climates. Even very good insulation may not be enough when compared to supplies coming upm through the floor. Your areestors could be inside the cabinet or further back in the basement along the last horizontal pipe.

KISS · Apr 27, 2008, 02:57 PM

Water hammer arresters are good anywhere the water gets turned off suddenly and that is the washer supply lines and the dishwasher.

SC-tbfd · Apr 27, 2008, 08:53 PM

Sorry to hijack this thread but it's directly related. Hope that's OK.

How common is this in the code books? I've never seen one installed around here (but I've always lived in old houses)

I had an inspection for a washing machine hookup and it wasn't mentioned.

I'm about to have an inspection for the new lav, and I didn't install them. I would have to change the stub out I think, the plumbing supply place recommended a brass 90 to a threaded chrome nipple because it's a pedestal sink.

speedball1 · Apr 28, 2008, 04:03 AM

how common is this in the code books?

Chapter 12, section 1213.8 of the Standard Plumbing Code addresses this. However, local codes prevail. Check with your Building Department to see if they are mandated in your area. You might just luck out. Good luck, Tom

iamgrowler · Apr 28, 2008, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by speedball1

How we install our air chambers, (see image) is to come off the top of a 1/2" tee just before we stub out of the wall and install the fitting on the tee as shown,(see image) We are mandated to install them on lavatories and kitchen sinks but if you want to put them on the laundry sink then that's just more protection for you. Good luck, Tom

Air chambers and hammer arrestors are two very different animals, Tom.

An air chamber is simply that -- A section of pipe extended above the fixtures shut-off that is, when operational, filled with air.

A hammer arrestor is a spring loaded chamber with a seat and it is designed to absorb the shock of an abruptly turned off appliance, most newer editions of the various Plumbing codes require mechanical hammer/shock arrestors to be installed on all solenoid actuated appliances; Dishwashers, clothes washers, ice makers and humidifiers, just to name a few.

Air chambers and hammer/shock arrestors also differ in that air chambers can be concealed inside of a wall cavity, whereas hammer/shock arrestors must be located in easily accessible locations.

speedball1 · Apr 28, 2008, 07:03 AM

Thanks for the lesson, Growler

ballengerb1 · Apr 28, 2008, 07:14 AM

John, now that you have been unhijacked do you have any more questions? Visit your local Menards or Home Depot, Sioux has a display at mine that shows some simple was to add an arrestor, some without soldering.

johnwi3 · Apr 29, 2008, 03:00 PM

Spoke to the inspector today. He is fine with me putting them on the supply lines for the washer machine and under the sink to cover the dishwasher. His concern seemed to be the selenoid activated valves... Thanks for the help.

rick4747 · Apr 29, 2008, 04:09 PM

Originally Posted by iamgrowler

Air chambers and hammer arrestors are two very different animals, Tom.

An air chamber is simply that -- A section of pipe extended above the fixtures shut-off that is, when operational, filled with air.

A hammer arrestor is a spring loaded chamber with a seat and it is designed to absorb the shock of an abruptly turned off appliance, most newer editions of the various Plumbing codes require mechanical hammer/shock arrestors to be installed on all solenoid actuated appliances; Dishwashers, clothes washers, ice makers and humidifiers, just to name a few.

Air chambers and hammer/shock arrestors also differ in that air chambers can be concealed inside of a wall cavity, whereas hammer/shock arrestors must be located in easily accessible locations.

You hit the nail right on the head GROWLER. The only thing I would add is (and this is just my opinion, no scientific data to back up) air chambers are a waste of money and time. Because they may work for a short time but then will fill up with water become water logged and then are inaffective. Hope I'm not out of line in saying they are a waste of time.

speedball1 · Apr 29, 2008, 05:05 PM

air chambers are a waste of money and time. Because they may work for a short time but then will fill up with water become water logged and then are inaffective. Hope I'm not out of line in saying they are a waste of time.

You're not out of line Rick just mistaken. Why do you think plumbing codes mandate air chambers? Air chambers will fill with condensate over the years but when we get complaints about water hammer it's a simple procedure to recharge them. We do it all the time. In my area we have been in installing air chambers since the 60's and this is the first time I've ever heard a complaint. What area are you from Rick and what code do you work under? Regards, Tom

jlisenbe · Apr 29, 2008, 05:22 PM

This is a good discussion. SB, how do you recharge air chambers? Can it be done without getting behind the wall?

ballengerb1 · Apr 29, 2008, 05:22 PM

I'd have to point out there are many things we install that start working just fine but slowly over the years start to fail. I'd put air chambers into that category along with water heater, faucets, lawn mowers, etc... everyhting fails in time. Whenever I shut down my main to do any work I open all the faucets and drain the house, in many areas of the house that pretty much recharges the chamber.

speedball1 · Apr 29, 2008, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by jlisenbe

This is a good discussion. SB, how do you recharge air chambers? Can it be done without getting behind the wall?

No problem! Read on! Back in the 60's we were required to to put air chambers on all bath lavatories and kitchen sinks. Over time water and condensate built up in them and they must be recharged. First turn off the house at the main house shut off valve. Then open hot and cold faucets at the farthest bathroom to prevent air lock.(This is important.) You will find under each fixture little brass or chrome valves. These are called angle stops. With a small pail held under the angle stop to catch the run off look under the handle of the stop and you will see a nut with the stem running through it. This is called the bonnet packing nut. Put your wrench on it and back it off counterclockwise. Now open the stop and remove the stem and washer assembly, The stop will begain to drain. When it has quit draining reassemble the stop and move on to the next one. Do this on each one of your angle stops. There will be six of them in a two bath home. When you are done, close off the faucets you have opened, turn on the water to the house, and give yourself a pat on the back.
You have just recharged your air chambers and saved yourself a hefty service call bill. Hope this helps you out TOM

rick4747 · Apr 29, 2008, 06:33 PM

SPEEDBALL1,not sure if this is the right place to reply to you or not. I am from Wisconsin and we go by WI. State code. Thanks for saying I was mistaken instead of being simple. Not code here so we generally remove on a remodel job.

Rick

speedball1 · Apr 30, 2008, 04:51 AM

Originally Posted by rick4747

SPEEDBALL1,not sure if this is the right place to reply to you or not. I am from Wisconsin and we go by WI. state code. Thanks for saying I was mistaken instead of being simple. Not code here so we generally remove on a remodel job.
Rick

No problem Rick, I'm a Beloit transplant. My father had a 40 man shop there. I left back in 55 to move to Florida. Air chamber are a water system plus. Why would you remove them instead of simply recharging them. Growler was correct to call me out on a hammer arrester definition but down here the term air chamber and air, shock or hammer arrester are interchangeable. I have installed hundreds of air chambers but never once had a call where I put in a spring loaded hammer arrester. Welcome to the Plumbging Page, Rick, Hope you like what you see and stick around and contribute. We can always use good people. Regards, tom