[FleurMan]

Here is my situation. Any help would be greatly appreciated. My home has a sump line that drains into my septic system. I really don't like this setup, even though it has caused no issues, I worry it's a disaster waiting to happen. The sump line is 1.5". The main line out to the septic is about 4feet above the finished basement floor. I want to have the sump drain on it's own outside. The sump would have to pump vertically about 6 feet or so. How should I do this? I have about 70' from the front of the house to the drain ditch at the road. The lot slopes downhill the entire length of the lot from the house. I live in a cold climate in easter ONtario, and am worried of the line freezing in winter. I do notice some of the homes along the road with a drain line near the edge of the ditch that I assume are their sump drain lines.
Do I use flex piping, hard piping, how big, and do I worry about freezing?
Thanks for any help!
Dan

[KISS]

Use the same size pipe as the discharge or larger. Put cleanouts at direction changes if possible. Hard PVC pipe.

Some sump pump systems have a little 1/8" weep hole a few inches above the discharge.
This allows standing water to drain out of the verticle segment of pipe.

Some pumps require check valves, others do not. 6' isn't a problem.

[FleurMan]

Use the same size pipe as the discharge or larger. Put cleanouts at direction changes if possible. Hard PVC pipe.

Some sump pump systems have a little 1/8" weep hole a few inches above the discharge.
This allows standing water to drain out of the verticle segment of pipe.

Some pumps require check valves, others do not. 6' isn't a problem.

WOW! Thanks for the quick reply! Thanks for the tips on cleanouts at direction changes, and hard piping. Do I need to worry about freezing? I have heard that the flowing water will not freeze? I can see this for a river, but a water pipe outside? And also how deep should the line be in the ground?
Thanks again!

[KISS]

You can always go the 4" drainage pipe route. There is no way that you can even fill that pipe. Flowing water won't freeze, so you have to make sure you have enough slope. I forget the recommended pitch. A foot to 18" is probably OK.

If your really concerned about freezing, it has to be below the frost line.

Dranage grates sold at Lowe's, don't go that deep.

To get the initial pitch, you may have to use a small section of corrogated drainage pipe.

That's why I think it's the best option.

[massplumber2008]

Kiss always has good advise! But I have an idea or two to add to the mix... ;) And to be real clear, it is not that I am suggesting KISS is wrong here... his advise is dead on. I just think we do it a little different over here and wanted to share with you guys!!

I would also pipe this in solid pvc to road.. either a 4" green SDR 35 pipe or even schedule 40 PVC pipe/fittings (I would bury this pipe in a bed of 1/4"-1/2" pea stone or similar and be real careful when backfilling that no rocks enter trench). I would put it 12" underground and I would pitch maximum pitch to the drainage ditch.

In terms of cleanouts for changes of direction... don't think you need them. This is only for water... right? Cleanouts are required on all waste lines at all changes of direction... so it is not that it is a bad idea... just that I am looking at this as an extension off a sump pump... not looking at it like a sewer drain line.

At the end of the 4" line at drain ditch I would cover the end of the pipe with a screened or grated cap (sold at home supply stores) to keep animals out.

Install check valve up at 5 feet above sump.pump...make sure pipe penetrating the house is pitched to outside and then I would just stick flexible 1.5" sump hose into the 4" pipe stubbed up 1 foot or so... for say 5-10 feet.

This is what I do in Massachusetts and in Maine most of my life...never had a 4" pipe freeze (as long as well pitched).

PS.. I have had sump pipes freeze because they pitched back in toward the house and trapped water between check valve and upward part of pipe.. so like I said.. pitch that pipe down from just above check valve OUT of house.

So, there you go guys... let me know what you think... Mark

.

[ballengerb1]

Have you considered just having the hose about 10' long and drain to your side yard? Since the lot slopes the water should not seep back to the house. Simpler, cheaper, your yard gets the benefit of the water. Both other answers are totally correct but it isn't always necessary to pipe to the ditch, let gravity do it for you.

[FleurMan]

Kiss always has good advise!! But I have an idea or two to add to the mix...;) And to be real clear, it is not that I am suggesting KISS is wrong here....his advise is dead on. I just think we do it a little different over here and wanted to share with you guys!!!

I would also pipe this in solid pvc to road..,either a 4" green SDR 35 pipe or even schedule 40 PVC pipe/fittings (I would bury this pipe in a bed of 1/4"-1/2" pea stone or similar and be real careful when backfilling that no rocks enter trench). I would put it 12" underground and I would pitch maximum pitch to the drainage ditch.

In terms of cleanouts for changes of direction....don't think you need them. This is only for water ...right?? Cleanouts are required on all waste lines at all changes of direction...so it is not that it is a bad idea...just that I am looking at this as an extension off a sump pump...not looking at it like a sewer drain line.

At the end of the 4" line at drain ditch I would cover the end of the pipe with a screened or grated cap (sold at home supply stores) to keep animals out.

Install check valve up at 5 feet above sump.pump...make sure pipe penetrating the house is pitched to outside and then I would just stick flexible 1.5" sump hose into the 4" pipe stubbed up 1 foot or so... for say 5-10 feet.

This is what I do in Massachusetts and in Maine most of my life...never had a 4" pipe freeze (as long as well pitched).

PS..I have had sump pipes freeze because they pitched back in toward the house and trapped water between check valve and upward part of pipe..so like I said..pitch that pipe down from just above check valve OUT of house.

So, there you go guys...let me know what you think...Mark

.

Perfect advice. Thanks to both of you (KISS included)
Yes this is simply water from the sump hole. I really want to drain to the ditch as opposed to somewhere in the yard, as it gets pretty dry here in the summer, and I would have a very odd looking patch of green grass if it drained on the lawn (the sump goes off all year, at least 1-2 times a day. Every few minutes in the spring thaw)
MassPLMR, when you say to "make sure no rocks enter trench", what exactly do you mean? You suggested the bottom of the trench be layered with stone, right? Just to be sure I understand the trench part. 12" deep, max slope, 1/4-1/2" pebble/stone bed in bottom of trench, solid 4" PVC pipe on bed? I just simply refill with the dug up topsoil? Or do I add the pebble all around the pipe?
Sorry if this sounds stupid, just want to make sure I understand it all correcly.
Again, thank you all for your fantastic adivce!
Dan

[massplumber2008]

Hey Dan.

Yup.. all sounded good... just want to be sure to cover the pipe with that pea stone... and then cover with topsoil... but NO ROCKS ...remove from topsoil(pebbles OK... but no larger rocks).

Pea stone -->> 1/4"-3/4" stones (good)
Rocks------->> 1-1/2" or larger (bad)

Good luck with it!

[KISS]

Confused a little too:

Burry 12" deep means?
1) 12" from top of pipe,
2) 12 1/4" from bottom of pipe

Mp: You said in one statement to cover the pipe in gravel and the other put pipe in a bed of pea gravel. So which is it?
1) Surround the pipe in gravel?
2) Use gravel on the bottom of the trench?

[massplumber2008]

I don't see why you would be confused KISS...

I originally said,

"I would bury this pipe in a bed of 1/4"-1/2" pea stone or similar and be real careful when backfilling that no rocks enter trench."

I think you know what bury the pipe means. I then clarified for fleurman and said, "cover the pipe"... I understand why fleurman may not have understood.

I also said,

"I would put it 12" underground and I would pitch maximum pitch to the drainage ditch."

I figure fleurman can decide if that means to top or to bottom of pipe.

The gravel or pea..? What are you talking about?? I said in original post,

"I would bury this pipe in a bed of 1/4"I would bury this pipe in a bed of 1/4" pea stone or similar

". In follow up post I said,

" cover the pipe with that pea stone"

. WHERE did you read gravel...? I am the one confused now..? What's up Kiss?

.

[KISS]

Ahh. I took "bed of pea stone" to be "stone at the underside of the pipe". Just like one sleeps on a bed, a bed of rocks is just that a layer of rocks. I took the 1/4 to 1/2" to be the thickness of the bed. Wrong answer when you think about it. My brain went: beds have thickness and therefore the number must be the thickness. Seems like that was never specified.

So, "surround the pipe with pea gravel" it is.

I interchange words a bit and I don't realize it at times. Gravel, stone and rock all have different characteristics. I wasn't paying attention.

Thanks for clarifying.

[KISS]

Now I'd like to hyjack this thread a bit and ask about gutter drainage.

I realize that I would need a grate at the bottom of the gutter (leaves), 1 length of solid pipe, 1 length of perforated pipe and a pop-up emitter. I know about the fabric and the stone and the slope.

What I don't know about is how to make the transitions at the end points. The grate fixes the initial height of the pipe, but if you attach solid pipe there it doesn't slope. So you now have a sloped length of solid+perforated pipe that won't connect at the ends. One end containing the catch basin 12" Catch Basin Kit - Black and the other end being a pop up emitter. 4" Pop-Up Emitter w/Elbow

So, would it be better to use all corrogated pipe or a short length of corogated to get to solid pipe? What fittings make these transitions?

Assume about 3' of flex on each end.


And in both cases, should one bury tracer wire with the drainage pipe?

[ballengerb1]

"tracer wire " what are you talking about here? I'd stick with 4" corregated pipe all the way with a pop up at the end off a 90 degree elbow. Buy the black drain line with a sleeve on it so it won't fill up with silt.

[KISS]

Tracer wire:
http://www.marc.org/gif/Shawnee%20ID%20Practice.pdf

[ballengerb1]

OK I see what you mean, I just don't consider a drain to a ditch as a utility like city water, phone, sewer.

[FleurMan]

Hey Dan.

Yup..all sounded good....just want to be sure to cover the pipe with that pea stone...and then cover with topsoil...but NO ROCKS ...remove from topsoil(pebbles ok...but no larger rocks).

pea stone -->> 1/4"-3/4" stones (good)
rocks------->> 1-1/2" or larger (bad)

Good luck with it!!

OK sounds like I got it all straight. Now I just have to get digging. The part Im not looking forward to is that I have to go right under an inlaid landscape brick project that I did about 5 years ago. (nice herringbone pattern, and the thing has been solid as concrete) Now I have to dig up right through the middle of it. Crap!
Thanks again!

[phillip9]

HI,

Why do you need pea stone around the solid PBC pipe?


Thank you

[speedball1]

Hi Phill and Welcome to The Plumbing Page. At AskMeHelpDesk.com. You're responding to a 4 year old dead thread . Look in then upper left hand corner of the first post form the date in the first post before you post, Thanks,