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cozyk · May 21, 2009, 04:36 AM

Read the link below and tell me how the Catholic church could ever find this okay? WHY do they insist on protecting the priest. Isn't there a higher calling than protecting the reputation of the church? Like protecting children? The rationale or excusing of this behavior just blows my mind. Your thoughts?

Catholic Church shamed by Irish abuse report

artlady · May 21, 2009, 04:51 AM

The Catholic Church has always been shrouded in a cloak of secrecy in an effort to keep up appearances.
Even the Pope has spoken publicly about this cover up and the disastrous effects of it.
It has gone on for ages and despite public outcry these men are somehow free of any prosecution,it still continues.
Maybe that is why the church is bankrupt,paying off these people!
I share your disgust and dismay!

spitvenom · May 21, 2009, 11:27 AM

I went to Catholic school for 9 years. I was an alter boy for 5 of those years. The priest would always say you don't just become a priest it is a calling. Don't you think if it was a calling, pedophiles wouldn't get that call. Just a note a priest never did anything to me. One time I got slapped then I punched him and that was the last time I ever stepped into a church unless I was forced to like weddings funerals baptisms etc...

artlady · May 21, 2009, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by spitvenom

I went to Catholic school for 9 years. I was an alter boy for 5 of those years. The priest would always say you don't just become a priest it is a calling. Don't you think if it was a calling, pedophiles wouldn't get that call. Just a note a priest never did anything to me. One time I got slapped then I punched him and that was the last time I ever stepped into a church unless i was forced to like weddings funerals baptisms etc...

I was raised Catholic as well,strict Catholic and I was never sexually abused but the nuns had no regret about giving your knuckles a whack with a ruler.I always wondered at the peace and love concept when they were doing that.

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 11:46 AM

Basically there is no defense for the appalling behavior, cover ups, and lack of accountability. Still, there are catholic want to bees. How is that? What am I missing? Who would want to support such a group? Not to say there aren't some perfectly fine people out there who happen to be catholic. I just don't think I could call myself that given the back room antics within this church.

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by spitvenom

I went to Catholic school for 9 years. I was an alter boy for 5 of those years. The priest would always say you don't just become a priest it is a calling. Don't you think if it was a calling, pedophiles wouldn't get that call. Just a note a priest never did anything to me. One time I got slapped then I punched him and that was the last time I ever stepped into a church unless i was forced to like weddings funerals baptisms etc...

I love this. That will teach them to put a hand on you! Lol:D

spitvenom · May 21, 2009, 02:02 PM

Every year they run a story about the unsloved murder but everyone knows who did it.

His girlfriend changed the subject real fast. But ever since then we really don't speak that much anymore. My wife doesn't care she never really had a close relationship with her father. I think she said it to really close the door on him. I thought it was messed up but I know what he put her through all her life and it wasn't good.

Fr_Chuck · May 21, 2009, 06:51 PM

Sadly bad things happen, but for some reason it is the Catholic churches that get national attention, The list of Baptist leaders, or scout leaders or many others never make the national news. And of course often the catholic abuses go back decades not really current issues.
While not acceptable, considering the larger numbers of Catholic clergy compared to any other religion there will be more of course.

JoeCanada76 · May 21, 2009, 07:02 PM

Catholic Bashing. Well Just have to say that anything that has happened. Is not called for. Is not right and there should be no secrecy. At the same time I am A Roman Catholic. I have never experienced any of these things within the catholic church. I do not condone the behaviour of some. That is right, Some. NOT EVERYBODY LINKED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, NOT EVERY PRIEST IS KNOWN TO BEHAVE THIS WAY. People here are pretty much painting the whole catholic church and its members in a bad light. Why?

As FrChuck has mentioned. There is a lot of abuse that goes on in other organizations and churches as well. Do you condemn them as a group?

I am Roman catholic and proud to say that I am. My beliefs are strong, does not mean I agree with the things that has happened in the past, or that I agree with everything the church has to say but it is my home and I was brought up within the Catholic church.

Joe

Tj3 · May 21, 2009, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Catholic Bashing. Well Just have to say that anything that has happened. Is not called for. Is not right and there should be no secrecy. At the same time I am A Roman Catholic. I have never experienced any of these things within the catholic church. I do not condone the behaviour of some. That is right, Some. NOT EVERYBODY LINKED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, NOT EVERY PRIEST IS KNOWN TO BEHAVE THIS WAY. People here are pretty much painting the whole catholic church and its members in a bad light. Why?

As FrChuck has mentioned. There is a lot of abuse that goes on in other organizations and churches as well. Do you condemn them as a group?

I would condemn the actions of any person or organization that engaged in abuse. How would so much of this go on in an organization (ANY organization) without someone in authority being aware? That means that either the person in authority did not properly discharge his duty or endorsed the actions.

The other concern that I have is that once those who raise the concern are called names like "Catholic Bashers" it tends to drive those who might otherwise raise the alarm underground, and I'd rather see the alarm sounded when abuse like this occurs in ANY organization to protect the children. Isn't that what's important?

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 07:09 PM

Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck

Sadly bad things happen, but for some reason it is the Catholic churches that get national attention, The list of Baptist leaders, or scout leaders or many others never make the national news. And of course often the catholic abuses go back decades not really current issues.
While not acceptable, considering the larger numbers of Catholic clergy compared to any other religion there will be more of course.

Why do you think catholics get national attention while other faiths or organizations don't? We just want to pick on catholics?? Why single them out? What would be the point? You are catholic. Surely you have a theory.

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 07:11 PM

Originally Posted by Tj3

I would condemn the actions of any person or organization that engaged in abuse. How would so much of this go on in an organization (ANY organization) without someone in authority being aware? That means that either the person in authority did not properly discharge his duty or endorsed the actions.

The other concern that I have is that once those who raise the concern are called names like "Catholic Bashers" it tends to drive those who might otherwise raise the alarm underground, and I'd rather see the alarm sounded when abuse like this occurs in ANY organization to protect the children. Isn't that what's important?

WHOA TJ! We agree on something. Who would have thunk it?:D

Tj3 · May 21, 2009, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by cozyk

WHOA TJ!! We agree on something. Who would have thunk it?:D

It had to happen eventually ;)

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 07:41 PM

Originally Posted by Jesushelper76

Catholic Bashing. Well Just have to say that anything that has happened. Is not called for. Is not right and there should be no secrecy. At the same time I am A Roman Catholic. I have never experienced any of these things within the catholic church.

That is wonderful and I am glad for you.

I do not condone the behaviour of some. That is right, Some. NOT EVERYBODY LINKED TO THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, NOT EVERY PRIEST IS KNOWN TO BEHAVE THIS WAY.

I never said everyone was known to behave this way. I even mentioned that in my earlier post. I just wondered why anyone would want to be associated with of a group that so grossly abused their power and then basically condoned it by letting it slide.

People here are pretty much painting the whole catholic church and its members in a bad light. Why?

No one has to paint it. It does have a bad light and a tragic history. IF the catholic church was serious about not condoning bad behavior, they would tirelessly investigate these crimes and see that restitution was made for every victim. That should be first and foremost in their agenda.

As FrChuck has mentioned. There is a lot of abuse that goes on in other organizations and churches as well. Do you condemn them as a group?

Of course not, and I don't join their group, support it with my money, or spout their merits either.

[

QUOTE]I am Roman catholic and proud to say that I am.

We differ here. I would be ashamed to claim this title.

My beliefs are strong, does not mean I agree with the things that has happened in the past, or that I agree with everything the church has to say but it is my home and I was brought up within the Catholic church.

Joe

[/QUOTE]

I could see how you could take the good lessons that you have learned and incorporate them in your life. I could see how you could have a sentimental attachment since you were brought up in this church. What I don't understand is how any of the crimes committed, hidden, ducked and permitted are swept under the rug like "sh$t happens" and then go about business as usual. I couldn't be a participate in letting that happen and that is what church members are really doing.

JoeCanada76 · May 21, 2009, 08:02 PM

Originally Posted by cozyk

We differ here. I would be ashamed to claim this title. What I don't understand is how any of the crimes committed, hidden, ducked and permitted are swept under the rug like "sh$t happens" and then go about business as usual. I couldn't be a participate in letting that happen and that is what church members are really doing.

So your accusing me of being part of the mess. Your accusing me of just participating and letting it happen. That is not what church members are doing.

First of all, You are basically telling me that I should be ashamed for being a Roman Catholic. Why should I be ashamed of my church? Why should I be ashamed of being a roman catholic.

What because Abuse has happened in the past. Abuse happens every where but you are lumping the whole organization world wide in one big clump of sh*t which is not fair to me or other catholic members that are outstanding citizens and church members.

You said, I am letting it happen. How exactly am I letting it happen. When It is not even happening in any of the Catholic churches I have been involved in. I have been involved in more then a few.

I told you that I do not codone it, and I do not believe that people involved in these abuses should be protected. That is what the law is for is to protect and also convict. Stop convicting the church as a whole, stop convicting all its members which includes me and lets get down to who really is not doing their jobs.

The government, the laws of the lands. You act as if the abuse is still happening today. I have not seen any of it. Those people that have been involved should be punished. Well, Lets see, is it not the law of the land. That will see to these people being convicted or not.

You have an hatred towards and organization as a whole. Your directing your anger in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.

Joe

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 08:57 PM

[

QUOTE=Jesushelper76;1749689]So your accusing me of being part of the mess. Your accusing me of just participating and letting it happen. That is not what church members are doing.

You did not "let" it happen. It's just that you and your church are not doing anything about it.

First of all, You are basically telling me that I should be ashamed for being a Roman Catholic. Why should I be ashamed of my church? Why should I be ashamed of being a roman catholic.

Because of the cover up that has gone on within your church. I don't know why congregations as a whole are not all over this, and won't stop until justice is served. It is like the wife of a man that sexually or physically abuses their child, and the wife keeps secret about it. She did not do the actual abuse, but she did not do anything about it either.

What because Abuse has happened in the past. Abuse happens every where but you are lumping the whole organization world wide in one big clump of sh*t which is not fair to me or other catholic members that are outstanding citizens and church members.

You said, I am letting it happen. How exactly am I letting it happen. When It is not even happening in any of the Catholic churches I have been involved in. I have been involved in more then a few.

You are missing the point. I never said everyone was guilty of these acts. I never said all churches had this going on. That is not the "lump" I'm making. The lump is that your denomination, the catholic church, as a whole has allowed these priest and other leaders to get away with what they have done. I'm not an expert on the rankings of church officials, but I don't understand how there is not an out cry from the congregations everywhere, to get to the bottom of this. Yank these leaders out and anyone who aided in their cover up and see that they are held accountable for acts they performed while representing your church. You just go on like this hasn't happened over and over again. Possibly still happening and still being covered.

Stop convicting the church as a whole, stop convicting all its members which includes me and lets get down to who really is not doing their jobs.

Like the supposed whistle blowers of the church that are not blowing their whistle but just transferring the guilty to another location or position?

The government, the laws of the lands. You act as if the abuse is still happening today. I have not seen any of it. Those people that have been involved should be punished. Well, Lets see, is it not the law of the land. That will see to these people being convicted or not.

It makes it very difficult to convict when the church is protecting them. I'm sure they do what they can with the cooperation they are given.

You have an hatred towards and organization as a whole. Your directing your anger in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.

Joe

[/QUOTE]
You mean I have A hatred towards THE organization as a whole? I wouldn't call it a hatred. It is more like a sense of indignation that cover ups have not been challenged by members of the organization.

JoeT777 · May 21, 2009, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by cozyk

Read the link below and tell me how the Catholic church could ever find this okay? WHY do they insist on protecting the priest. Isn't there a higher calling than protecting the reputation of the church? Like protecting children? The rationale or excusing of this behavior just blows my mind. Your thoughts?

Southern Baptists join Catholics: Move pedophile preachers from church to church, deny everything

Southern Baptists join Catholics: Move pedophile preachers from church to church, deny everything

JoeT777 · May 21, 2009, 09:20 PM

More letters urging leniency for clergy pedophile

Stop Baptist Predators: More letters urging leniency for clergy pedophile

JoeT777 · May 21, 2009, 09:29 PM

Associated Baptist Press - Baptist churches more vulnerable to clergy sex abuse, experts say

Do you think that this is exclusively a ‘Catholic Problem’ or is this how you express your ‘hate Catholic’ attitude?

cozyk · May 21, 2009, 09:31 PM

Originally Posted by JoeT777

Southern Baptists join Catholics: Move pedophile preachers from church to church, deny everything

Southern Baptists join Catholics: Move pedophile preachers from church to church, deny everything

Just as bad. I don't attend a southern baptist church but if I did, I would be asking what are we going to do to get to the bottom of this. We can't call ourselves christians and be christ like if we allow something like this go unpunished under our watch.

Not sure what your point was with posting this. Was it to say, "hey, other churches are doing it too". Well other churches should be just as ashamed if they don't hold their leaders accountable.