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Assalamu alaikum, its millat. Its my 1st time. So mistakes are probable, I ask for your forgiveness in advance. Well, now my Q. To what extent is a teacher allowed to punish his naughty, disobedient, or ill mannered student physically e.g. beating or slapping? Jazakallahu khair. millat hossain
Really depends on your location, but corporeal punishment, i.e. striking, has been BANNED in most educational establishments and countries.
A child is considered to be the incarnation of God and hence, no corporal punishment is acceptable.
From the bible, spare the rod and spoil the child, in Christianity, corporal punishment is not only acceptable but recommended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Lining
But in schools, it will depend on what country, it is still used in some places.
In my country, if you lay your hand on my child you will have to answer to me! Not your God or your Allah... ME!
No, this is not from the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
From Wiktionary --
This phrase is from a 17th century poem by Samuel Butler called “Hudibras”. In the poem, a love affair is likened to a child, and spanking is commended as a way to make the love grow stronger. The actual verse reads:
"What medicine else can cure the fits
Of lovers when they lose their wits?
Love is a boy by poets styled
Then spare the rod and spoil the child."
Maybe in your Christianity, but not mine! Oh how this makes my blood pressure rise!Quote:
in Christianity, corporal punishment is not only acceptable but recommended.
I have only raised my hand to any of my 4 children on a minimal amount of occasions. I have 2 Iraqi war veterans, a child with a 4.0 GPA in college and a 10 year old on the honor roll at school. I have found that talking and reasoning with the child so much more effective than fear. Children should never fear their elders, but rather communicate with them on a level that is equivalent to the age of the child.
With proper communication, such as in any relationship, there is a better understanding of right and wrong.
Chuck, if it's okay to beat your kid because they are not behaving in a manner that is not appropriate to you, would it be appropriate to beat your wife because she does not agree with you? Communication is the key to any relationship, be it the parent/child, spouse vs. spouse, or the teacher vs. student.
I agree with J9. If you so much as lay a finger on my child you better be prepared to meet God in person.
I know that some countries still allow children to be abused by their teachers, but for anyone to think this is okay, or acceptable, is just ludicrous.
And with smaller children -- and even older ones, rather than a solid wallop on the backside, the parent's moving his or her body to interact with the child, move him to a safer place, etc. is much more effective. Of course, that means Dad and Mom (or Teacher) have to get off their lazy butts...Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Spanking a child ( not beating or abuse) is a wonderful punishment and one that is gravely missed in most of society in the too liberal world. That alone is a major problem with society and why children have as many issues as they do.
And yes Christians must believe this, because it is in the bible and the word of God.
No, as much as I love you, this is just not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
This is where I have to agree to disagree. While I do believe in spanking when it necessary, in the case of danger for instance, I believe it is best to talk to/with the child so that they understand what they did was wrong and why.
Yes, I have spanked my children when it came down to dangerous situations, but other than that there is nothing wrong with a discussion as to how and/or why their behavior is inappropriate.
I have to add to what J9 said. I have also spanked my children, but believe that talking is always the first step. If they don't learn from that then the punishment escalates. Spanking is always the last resort.
Having said that, I'm the parent. If I choose to spank my children when they're misbehaving, then that's my right. But a teacher? A teacher has absolutely no right whatsoever to lay his/her hands on my child! Ever! I don't care if that teacher is Christian, Muslim, Jewish, or God himself!
Depends on how u interpret...Quote:
Originally Posted by Fr_Chuck
What it really means is, if one does not discipline a child he or she will never learn obedience,, doesn't mean corporal punishment is acceptable n recommended
I'd take it the positive way,,
Spare the Rod and Spoil The Child,,
I'd take it as Save the rod for something else, and pamper the child so much that u spoil the child with love,,
As I said earlier in this thread. "Spare the rod and spoil the child" is NOT found in the Bible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Silver Lining
Even before talking, when a child is very small and headed toward the street or toward a family heirloom, a swat on the behind and a sharp NO might deter him for the next time, but the parent has to actually get off his chair and remove that child from danger or mayhem or mischief -- I probably lost all my baby weight just being aware of where the child was and picking up/moving him rather than shouting NO from my recliner or hoping repeated spankings taught him something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alty
I completely agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I can count on one hand the number of times I've actually spanked my kids. Both kids. One hand, and I have fingers left over.
Jared got his first spank when he was around 2, almost 3. We were in the front yard, I was weeding, he was playing. I had spent a lot of time teaching Jared that the boundary lines are the yard, to the sidewalk. The street is off limits.
Well, on that day I was weeding, and Jared was playing with a ball. The ball rolled onto the street and Jared ran after it. We live in a cul-de-sac, not many cars going by, but as luck would have it, as Jared ran after his ball, and my back was turned for a second (a second is all it takes) my neighbor was pulling into our cul-de-sac. Thankfully she saw Jared, and stopped.
I was shaken to the core. At that point I have to say, I spanked him because I really wanted him to never ever ever forget. I also spanked him because of my fear. I could have lost him!
Around an hour later, when my heart rate went back to normal, and I thought about it, I felt horrible. I sat my little boy down, and I apologized to him. I told him that I spanked him because I was so afraid. I spanked him because I could have lost him.
Of course he didn't understand what I was saying at that time, but he's now 14, and he remembers that day. He also understands, now, why I did it.
He reached that understanding this summer, when we were walking our dogs, Chewy and Rascal. Rascal was still a very small puppy. Chewy a beagle, 3 at the time, was pulling like he always does. Well, the leash broke. It snapped in two. Chewy took off running, Jared and Sydney running after him. Chewy ran into the street, a busy street. Sydney was about to run after him, and Jared stopped her.
Obviously it all ended well, we caught Chewy, and everyone was okay. But afterwards Jared said to me "That was the scariest thing ever. I didn't know what to do. I couldn't stop Chewy, I almost couldn't stop Sydney. They both could have been killed! I was so scared". I asked him "didn't you want to smack them both on the butt so they'd learn to never do it again? Not because you were angry, but because they scared you that much." He said yes, and that's when he understood. :)
Hey Wondergirl,Quote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
I read your previous post and yet replied since SOME insist that the phrase is from the bible,, if THEY believe it is indeed from the bible, then I feel they are reading the Bible upside down because no word of God (Bhagavad Geeta, Bible, Quran etc) says that one should hurt a child to take the child in the right path,, It is people who read it and interpret the wrong way and also teach the wrong methods who need to understand their mistake,,
That phrase is not in the Bible. It is from a secular poem.
The Biblical injunction spare the rod and spoil the child is not well understood, a proper study would demonstrate the rod spoken of is the mouth, that is chastising the child, disciplining the child and giving it proper instruction. The Bible says that he who does not discipline his child hates him and this is the Christian standard, not thrashing the child.
Violence begets violence. If you want a violent child, treat him violently. If you want a peaceful child, treat him peacefully.
It is just as effective to use non-violent measures to teach children to behave and you do not, as a teacher, risk upsetting parents or setting a bad example for the children as you will if you use corporal punishment.
Well you may be right on the letter of the word but the concept is certainly found in the BibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Wondergirl
Proverbs 13:24
Whoever spares the rod hates their children, but the one who loves their children is careful to discipline them.
The rod spoken of the voice, when that doesn't work harsher measures are sometimes necessary, boundries must be set and children taught to respect them
Of course, in ancient times it was common to use leaches to treat illness and other forms of bloodletting, and practices like crucifixion and other painful means of implementing death sentences such as beheadings were commonly done, so I think we've evolved a bit.
The difficulty with hitting children as a means of punishment - or spanking or swatting or whatever more palatable terms people want to use for it - is that it's generally considered a "last resort". When parents are at the point of implementing the "last resort" few are patient, kind or reasonable any longer - lets face it, kids drive us nuts. The potential to go too far is great.
All kids are different but I have a child who was from a difficult background (adopted) who has ADHD. I found it most effective to implement natural consequences. If he broke a toy in a tantrum, there was no way I was going to fix it or replace it - it went in the trash "Oh, well - I guess you broke that when you had your temper tantrum so it's garbage now. That's too bad because you really liked that toy. Next time maybe you can use your words and not throw things." If natural consequences aren't appropriate, I would come up with something as reasonably close as I could. For example, if he spoiled an event that we went to as a family, we would not permit him to go to an event that was for his enjoyment. That is, ruin the family dinner today and you cannot go to the birthday party tomorrow: "wow - this is a shame. Your behavior was really bad today and children who behave that way aren't allowed at birthday parties. Well, hopefully you'll behave better in the future so you don't have to miss fun events."
I could have spanked my child at the family dinner and then let him go to the birthday, but he would have just remembered that I hit him. With this alternate approach, he learned that if he wanted to do what he wanted to do, he better not spoil what the rest of the family wanted to do. We repeated the lesson a few times - left restauratns with our food packed to go when he acted up, then he was not allowed to go anywhere with us for a few days and he had to stay home with the boring parent, with nothing entertaining to do. He got the message and learned it was in his best interests to behave.
I don't know what hitting my child would have ever accomplished but I didn't try it. He's now 18, fit, healthy and happy with a lot of friends. He is well liked by the adults in his life, headed for college on a full scholarship with recommendations from the places where he volunteered through high school and is disciplined and accomplished in his sport. We are very close. The proof is in the pudding.
Let me put it to you this way... if YOU spanked my child... they would find your body at the bottom of a landfill.
I remember once when I was in high school. I was being "naughty" and a male teacher said that I had either the option of being spanked or cleaning the cafeteria. I turned to him and said," let me do YOU the favor of cleaning the cafeteria, because if my father catches wind of you wanting to hit me, he will see to it that you are at the bottom of the lake with cement boots." He looked at me and said that perhaps I should clean the cafeteria.
My father is old school Italian, and his and the apple doesn't fall very far from the tree...
So, yes, you hit my child and you will pay...
The Greek noun for “discipline” means “upbringing," "training," instruction.” The Bible says that this shows parental love. (Proverbs 13:24) The “rod of discipline” should never be abusive—emotionally or physically. (Proverbs 22:15; 29:15) Discipline that is rigid or harsh with no love is an abuse of parental authority and can crush a child's spirit. (Colossians 3:21) Balanced discipline properly administered gives children the message that their parents love them and care about the kind of person they are becoming.
The Bible says, “Don't overcorrect your children or you will take all the heart out of them.” (Colossians 3:21) It also says that physical punishment is usually not the most effective teaching method. Proverbs 17:10: “A rebuke works deeper in one having understanding than striking a stupid one a hundred times.”
I've noticed that there's a lot of talk about the bible in this thread. I want to point out that the OP of this thread isn't Christian, that's very clear by how and what he writes. So maybe quoting the bible isn't something that's called for in this thread.
Just a thought.
I agree. It appears the OP is Muslum, so quoting the Qur'an would be more appropriate.Quote:
I've noticed that there's a lot of talk about the bible in this thread. I want to point out that the OP of this thread isn't Christian, that's very clear by how and what he writes. So maybe quoting the bible isn't something that's called for in this thread.
Just a thought.
Agreed!Quote:
Originally Posted by J_9
Depends upon relations between child and teacher...
When I was I high school I was addicted to beating from my favourite sir... that sir was like my friend... I Used to tease him and he in return beat me... but.. id liked.. it... now I miss those days...
I'm going to b 18 soon still like doing mischief and getting beating... from teachers that understands students
I would hate beating from a very serious or professional teachers...
I can assure you, most people are not addicted to being beaten, do not like it and do not miss it when it ends. This sounds very concerning - like grooming for sexual abuse. Certainly, your odd experience with having a peer-like relationship with a teacher who you liked to be beaten by does not apply to the question.Quote:
Originally Posted by caringnandu
You like being abused?Quote:
Originally Posted by caringnandu
That's an issue you should have checked, and get resolution for it. Therapy would be a very good idea for you.
Bottom line, corporal punishment is not legal in most places.
I have to agree with Enigma. If a teacher, or anyone, beat my child, they'd find that teachers body in a landfill. You don't dare lay a hand on my children.
Are you seriously crazy to be addicted to beating? I was addicted to pranks but regretted being beaten up...Quote:
Originally Posted by caringnandu
Even I was hit as a child for being naughty,, but that doesn't mean the teacher is a fren,, the teacher is simply taking the anger out in the wrong way,, if someone hits my baby, they'l open the eyes in an ICU, not knowing what hit them...
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